Interreligious discussion: Jesus is the only way to salvation

G

greenberg

until the end of the world
Registered Senior Member
Disclaimer:
This thread is meant solely for the discussion of the topic between religionists.
There has recently been a similar thread with a similar topic, but it got a bit distracted by the input of atheists and agnostics.

In this thread, I wish that the various religionists take a clear stance on why Jesus is or is not the only way to salvation, and discuss the issue amongst themselves.

Others, who do not belong to a specific religion, or declared atheists and agnostics, are welcome to ask questions and request clarifications - but only strictly pertinent to the religious discussion.
So no statements to the effect of "Religion is the opium for the masses" or "There is no evidence that God exists". Please take those things to other threads.



So, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Vaishnavas, Buddhists and others: Is Jesus the only way to salvation?
If yes - Why yes?
If no - Why no?

Please discuss.
 
I am not sure if I am a religionist, but I am a theist, so I'll join.

No, Jesus is not the only way to salvation. He was a human, I am pretty sure a real historical figure, though I cannot prove this, and I believe he has some good insights and some poor ones and reflected the culture and psychology of his time. Perhaps he even was capable of doing some magic. So potentially quite special, but not the only route to getting your shit together. I also think that given some of his problematic beliefs and actions - the separation of God's realm and Caesar's, and the willingness to be crucified -he created or gave focus to some really pernicious philosophical ideas that have done a lot of damage.

I also think that it is not clear in the Bible that one must see Jesus the way certain Christians do.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
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This is the quote that generally comes up in these discussions. A sentence said in a very specific context to a group of people who knew him has been taken to justify a great deal of conversion violence and violence aimed at heretics and used to make a massive guilt trip and create a rift between religions.

What if he meant, right at that time, there in that meeting, in relation to those people?
What if he was referring to the state of consciousness he was in, rather than the person he was? - or the 'hidden deity within'.
What if it was simply something inevitable, that one passed through the Son of God's essence when one came to God the father, but he did not have as his intention to imply that one must walk around thinking of some oddly pale caucasian guy with blue eyes who name is Jesus to get into heaven. Perhaps it is a most mystical communion one will inevitably have with a principle or some disembodied spirit, etc.

Further, given that Christianity is historical, he was talking to people at a certain stage in the world's spiritual development. There is no reason to assume that later people could come to God in a variety of ways. Or that God did not have other ways for people in Japan for example, who were alive at the same time as Jesus.

Anyone who is absolutely sure they know what Jesus meant by this - and that he said it in precisely this wording or at all - is making a very powerful claim about their own intuition.

You cannot humbly assert that you know this means only Christians will get into Heaven. That is not an option.
 
Greenberg, you're going to have to clarify exactly what you mean... even for the theists, I feel.

Jesus was a "thing" (person / semi-deity / deity / "God made Man" etc) so Jesus per se can not be anything other than what he/it is.

So I feel you may need to clarify what you mean by "Jesus is the only way to salvation": do you mean "through following his teachings" - or "through praying to Jesus to intercede on our behalf" etc?

And also please clarify what you mean by "salvation".

Salvation from self? From Hell's eternal fire and Bushisms?


Simon Anders said:
He was a human...
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Was he? I thought this was one of the key issues separating a number of religious communities... the Gnostics thought he was human; other religions feel he was just a prophet; some consider him the Son of God - but even then it's up for grabs whether he was human or some God-like entity (not human, not deity per se).

So you'll need to state why you think he was just "a human".

Perhaps he even was capable of doing some magic.
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David Copperfield stuff? Or are you talking bona fide countering of the laws of physics and chemistry? 'Cos that would make him special indeed. ;)

I also think that it is not clear in the Bible that one must see Jesus the way certain Christians do.
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True - especially if read in conjunction with those Gospels not included in the original "anthology of short stories". :)
 
Sarkus said:
Was he? I thought.....
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I suspect but am not completely sure from you post that you are not a theist. If not, please respect
Greenberg's
Disclaimer:
This thread is meant solely for the discussion of the topic between religionists.
There has recently been a similar thread with a similar topic, but it got a bit distracted by the input of atheists and agnostics.
Click to expand...
There is plenty of room in other threads to go into the issues that come up between non-theists and theists.
 
probably a more fitting inter-religious topic of discussion would be how is jesus viewed from other traditions, since a buddhist, etc would only view jesus as the only way if they had recently converted to Christianity.
 
lightgigantic said:
probably a more fitting inter-religious topic of discussion would be how is jesus viewed from other traditions, since a buddhist, etc would only view jesus as the only way if they had recently converted to Christianity.
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I think Jesus just had a chip on his shoulder, he was going to come pick a bone with those people no matter what they practiced.
 
lightgigantic said:
probably a more fitting inter-religious topic of discussion would be how is jesus viewed from other traditions
Click to expand...

This would already relativize the issue to the point of making it irrelevant.
Your suggestion above seems to imply that all religions provide simply views, and not the truth itself in its wholeness. Which is another problematic outlook to begin with.
 
greenberg said:
This would already relativize the issue to the point of making it irrelevant.
Your suggestion above seems to imply that all religions provide simply views, and not the truth itself in its wholeness. Which is another problematic outlook to begin with.
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well how about "can jesus be a means of salvation if he isn't the only way?"
 
Simon Anders said:
I suspect but am not completely sure from you post that you are not a theist. If not, please respect
Greenberg's
Click to expand...
I'm not a theist - but that does not negate the points I made.

You made the assumption that Jesus was but a man... and this is not a view held by all relgions.

This will be the case whether I am a theist or an atheist.

As Greenberg also said (that you seem to have missed):
Others, who do not belong to a specific religion, or declared atheists and agnostics, are welcome to ask questions and request clarifications - but only strictly pertinent to the religious discussion.
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Sarkus,
good point in your other post, hence I answer below.

Sarkus said:
Was he? I thought this was one of the key issues separating a number of religious communities... the Gnostics thought he was human; other religions feel he was just a prophet; some consider him the Son of God - but even then it's up for grabs whether he was human or some God-like entity (not human, not deity per se).
Click to expand...
Yes, it is a point that separates religious communities and, since I have made a stand, I have separated myself out from certain religious communities - and potentially aligned myself with others. Which is part of the point of the thread, I believe. The theists can discuss their differences.

So you'll need to state why you think he was just "a human".
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It is a guess or intuition that he did in fact exist but was not THE son of God.

David Copperfield stuff? Or are you talking bona fide countering of the laws of physics and chemistry? 'Cos that would make him special indeed. ;)
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This one I would answer from a theist. Just being (perhaps over) protective of the thread and my sense of where this might lead with a non-theist. If other theists want to know my stance on what is called magic, I'll bring it in. (It was funny. I read 'David Copperfield' in your question and I thought, what the hell does this have to do with Dickens' novel - then it hit me what you meant.)
 
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Sarkus said:
Greenberg, you're going to have to clarify exactly what you mean... even for the theists, I feel.

Jesus was a "thing" (person / semi-deity / deity / "God made Man" etc) so Jesus per se can not be anything other than what he/it is.

So I feel you may need to clarify what you mean by "Jesus is the only way to salvation": do you mean "through following his teachings" - or "through praying to Jesus to intercede on our behalf" etc?

And also please clarify what you mean by "salvation".
Click to expand...

I avoid to define these terms in advance, as the definition of these terms is part of the answer to the OP question to begin with.
What the common person sometimes hears is the statement "Jesus is the only way to salvation" - and this is all. The definitions of these terms are open to discussion.
Hence I ask you to please bear with the thread and let the theists and other religionists discuss these things among themselves.
 
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