Insecurities of Religion + Origin of Humanity

jcastro

Registered Member
Hello everyone,
I was previously a devout Christian, but have since become a "teetering totter" as far as where my views are.

I would like to say that religion has transformed over the centuries in order to go with the flow of science. What I mean is, when science discovers a truth, religion has to regroup in order to keep its validation as the religious see it.

In the past, Catholicism openly denounced the theories that Earth revolved around the Sun instead of vice versa. In fact, they went to great lengths to silencing these Astronomers and even killed them. But now, we see differently. Earth does revolve around the Sun and we have mathematical proof to verify it. Not to mention observational proof collected over the years from satellites.

Today, there are heated debates about Creationism, the Big Bang, and other "infant theories." However, mostly Creationism and the Big Bang are being debated at current.

I ask this: "Why do Christians feel that Creationism is truly how the Universe was created?"

And drifting apart from Christians, why do religious people as a whole believe in a God or multiple Gods?

How do we know that religion didn't arise due to our own insecurities in the past and that we are afraid to give them up due to possible punishments (i.e.: hell) we may receive if we cease to believe. Let me ask you, what God would sentence an ignorant human being to a lake of burning fire if that human led a moral life and contributed greatly to human society?

Apparently you absolutely have to believe in God in order to achieve a magnificent and glorious heaven in which your spirit will live forever.

Is there a thing called "spirit"? We are made up of trillions of atoms and we came from this Earth. Atoms interact with each other don't they? Uranium itself gives off electromagnetic radiation due to its short half-life. It is a very active element.

Now let's look at our own bodies' composition. We are made up of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, phosphorus, and many other elements. Please feel free to contribute them here.

But anyways, let's look at our brains. Our brains are made up of neurons, correct? These neurons are connected and have various functions. They are divided into many sections such as the neocortex, the cerebrum, the medula, and etc. Each has a different task and yet they all work together to keep the body living, learning, and reproducing.

What drives us to live, learn, reproduce, and etc.? Electrical pulses in our brains? Well yes, but how did our brains evolve into how they are today?

Many people say God created us--a supreme being. Well that is a simple answer to a complicated question. We can say an all-powerful entity created us, because we simply don't know how we were created. Now we are frightful of giving up that because if there truly is a God, then he could do some serious punishment to everyone who doesn't believe in him.

The Bible tells that humans were created from dust. Well I suppose that is quite accurate as we did come from the Earth. But we could have been organically deposited from comets, asteroids, and etc.

But why does the Bible say Earth was created in seven days? Many say that this is simply a different time--God's time. Maybe it was seven days in God's time and yet millions or thousands of years in Earth time? Then why did Methuselah live to be 939--or whatever his age was--years old. Then it talks about some people giving birth to children at age 60 or something like that. Am I missing something? Seven days, 939 years, 60 years, and other complicated dates...

Well this just shows how unintelligent humans were at that time period. Yet they did have some intelligence, but they had many many questions. Their brains were just as evolved as ours, but they lacked the knowledge that only time can fill up.

The age was filled with wars, gossip, disease, famine, and etc. Many people had that inquisitive mind and enough intelligence to ask themselves "How did we get here?"

With that and all the mysteries they faced--including the mysterious points of light in the night sky and the bright orb in the daytime--they attempted to answer their many questions, yet having no tools to help them. They wanted to get rid of war and inhumanity in order to secure their lives and their children's lives. But they also wanted to give themselves hope and hope to the people. Perhaps they were also inspired by dreams and mysterious events in their lives. Perhaps astronomical events such as meteors, comets, novae, supernovae, transits, and etc. inspired them as well. With all of their questions and inspirations, perhaps they started to write documents explaining things.

Of course, then there is the fact that astrology was increasingly common back then. People attempted to foretell events that would take place in the future and the direction of their lives. I can see religions taking up some of that and calling them "prophecies."

Now, let me circle back to how we came to be. Well the Earth was formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago in the early protosystem. Now who knows what its composition was, but we can say that collisions were very common, as you can see by evidence from the Moon, Mercury, asteroids, and even here on Earth. It is very likely that organic compounds were deposited on Earth's surface and attempted to form other compounds. This being that the early Earth environment was hostile and very chaotic. With volcanic eruptions, cosmic collisions, intense tectonic activity, and a very stormy atmosphere, atoms and compouds were very likely to become ionized and disturbed.

These ionized atoms and compounds bonded with other elements and compounds in order to stabilize themselves through valence electrons.

With the stabilization of the Terran environment, the formation of oceans and continents, and the formation of an atmosphere, life emerged. But why? I suppose that is a question that just can't be answered. But we can all theorize.

That is why so many people say an entity created us. Why would life have formed otherwise?

Well let's keep an open mind. You can either believe in a religion or not, either doesn't offend me. I just happen to follow scientific proof.

Let me just say that unicellular microbes were first, and then multicellular organisms eventually arose. Through fossils we can carbon-date certain stages in climate changes of the Earth (Jurassic, Pennsylvanian, Cetacean, etc.) and determine the organisms that were alive during that period.

I just don't really know how life came to be or the Universe for that matter, but I do know that religion has changed constantly over the years in order to go along with scientific discoveries.

Replies are MOST welcomed.

Sincerely, jcastro
 
That's very well written, jcastro. I'll try to come up with a proper response.
 
Ah, thank you very much Athelwulf. You have my gratitude for your kind remarks.

With most respect and sincerity, jcastro
 
Lemaitras big bang

The first key idea dates to 1916 when Einstein developed his General Theory of Relativity which he proposed as a new theory of gravity. His theory generalizes Isaac Newton's original theory of gravity, c. 1680, in that it is supposed to be valid for bodies in motion as well as bodies at rest. Newton's gravity is only valid for bodies at rest or moving very slowly compared to the speed of light (usually not too restrictive an assumption!). A key concept of General Relativity is that gravity is no longer described by a gravitational "field" but rather it is supposed to be a distortion of space and time itself. Physicist John Wheeler put it well when he said "Matter tells space how to curve, and space tells matter how to move." Originally, the theory was able to account for peculiarities in the orbit of Mercury and the bending of light by the Sun, both unexplained in Isaac Newton's theory of gravity. In recent years, the theory has passed a series of rigorous tests.

The Cosmological Principle


Although the Big Bang Theory is widely accepted, it probably will never be proved; consequentially, leaving a number of tough, unanswered questions.
 
Einstein thought, at first, Lemaitre's "Big Bang" theory was wrong. Only later did he believe the Catholic Priest had it right.
 
Thanks to everyone for their contributions to this thread. I shall take a look at the link you have sent me fahrenheit_451. However I must say that the majority of my questions were rhetorical. Thus, I was asking people to submit their thoughts. Sorry for the confusion.

, jcastro
 
jcastro, that was very insightful.
I beleive in god because as you said, it seems like the simplest answer to how we got here. Now, if we did evolve into what we are today, that is truely amazing! I often think about that possibilty but It seems almost impossible to me as God is to you. Look at the human body, Its so perfect, how everything functions and how it's all put together. Imagine all of the different, random , perfect chain of events that had to happen to form us.how did all of those atoms know what was needed to create a male and a female and then include a way for us to reproduce. any thoughts anyone?
 
Look at the human body, Its so perfect, how everything functions and how it's all put together.
It depends on your idea of perfection. ;)
Imagine all of the different, random , perfect chain of events that had to happen to form us.how did all of those atoms know what was needed to create a male and a female and then include a way for us to reproduce. any thoughts anyone?
Just one, evolution and natural selection, the atoms of course didnt know what was needed to create a human being(male or female) single cellular organisms became multi cellular and evolved over millions of years, humans just happened to be one of the many species that thus far have survived, whereas many species have also died out, IMHO humans are far from perfect, but are adaptable and have survived better than certain other species. As for the random chain of events etc etc (insert complicated mathematics here) ;)
 
lemmig3k, think about it...even if it did take millions of years..... what are chances that we just happen to be. Then if you look at the earth, how perfectly everything is in balance. our distance from the sun, the size of the earth, how the moon controls the tides, our atmosphere, our brains.click here:
( http://everystudent.com/features/isthere.html)
That link is were I got some of those ideas. the odds of us being here by chance coupled with the perfection of earth is slim. I compare that to throwing a 500 peice jigsaw puzzle up in the air over a billion times and how many times do you think that the puzzle would land fully assembled? it seems impossible
 
the odds of us being here by chance coupled with the perfection of earth is slim
In the grand scheme of things? not at all, we have 1 star which 9 planets orbit, 1 of which contains life, theres well over several hundred trillion stars out there(and perhaps someone will now come along and tell me thats just one galaxy and how many millions of those there are out there) either way, do the math.
As for humans, we could have evolved many different ways, this just happens to be the way that works best(for now since we havnt finished evolving).
 
The Milky Way alone has an estimated 100 billion stars.

The creation of human life was just the effect of many causes. Life would have formed differently had the environment been much different. We can't just say life requires water, oxygen, and an average temperature of 60 degrees Fahrenheit to live. We have already seen organisms thriving in boiling water and some that survived the coldness of space for three years on robotic missions. With the Martian meterorite discovery in Antartica of a possible fossil of a tube-like worm creature, it would seem likely that life takes any toehold it can get. However, it has not been proven that this tube-like structure is the resulted of fossilized life.

Just what was necessary for humans to evolve? Time and the Terran environment. Our geological and atmospheric composition resembles our own composition not to mention the billions of other species on this planet. So what does that have to say about other worlds? Well let's take an alien world orbitting at forty million miles from a star similar to that of our own. Temperatures are unbearably hot, at least for Terran organisms. In its early protosystem it is bombarded by hundreds of comets and asteroids. Its atmospheric composition eventually (around a billion years later) stabilize out to be 76% carbon dioxide, 4% oxygen, 10% nitrogen, 9% argon, and 1% trace elements. Its geological composition is 40% carbon, 10% silicon, 25% calcium, and the rest belonging to other elements. Now these atoms are being just as disturbed as the atoms on primitive Earth.

There is intense heat and solar radiation as well as electrical discharges from the upper atmosphere. This rapid energy transfer results in high amounts of kinetic energy and ionization of atoms. This ionization, as we have seen innumerable times on Earth, results in the chemical bonding of two or more atoms in formation of a compound. Silicates, carbonates, salts, and many other compounds are formed and interact with one another.

Eventually complex compounds arise and become "organic" to the planet. This means that they are naturally-occuring and environmentally-friendly to the planet. These compounds are able to sustain long periods of stabilization and they are able to not become ionized as easily. Well, we all know atoms "want" to become as stable as possible. Well, in pursuit of achieving this, these atoms and compounds bond with other atoms and compounds and form intricate structures that allow them to have peaceful lifetimes. These structures eventually become increasingly complex and the interaction between atoms in the compound results in the eventual formation of simple intelligence such as unicellular organisms.

Although extremely complex to describe with the aide of visual diagrams and computer simulations, this should be able to help some understand how it is possible for life to be created without an all-powerful being to do the dirty work.

, jcastro
 
lostmind said:
Look at the human body, Its so perfect, how everything functions and how it's all put together. Imagine all of the different, random , perfect chain of events that had to happen to form us.how did all of those atoms know what was needed to create a male and a female and then include a way for us to reproduce. any thoughts anyone?

Look at the omnipotent deity, it's so perfect, how everything functions and how it's all put together. Imagine all of the different, random, perfect chain of events that had to happen to form it. How did all of those mystical particles know what was needed to create an omnipotent deity and then include a way for it to create us. Any thoughts anyone?
 
lostmind said:
I beleive in god because as you said, it seems like the simplest answer to how we got here.

It is the simplest answer . . . But that doesn't make it the correct answer. At the very least, it means ye'r not thinking enough. :D

lostmind said:
Then if you look at the earth, how perfectly everything is in balance. our distance from the sun, the size of the earth, how the moon controls the tides, our atmosphere, . . .

Which is why life started here in the first place: It was a suitable environment.

O' course, everything is only perfectly in balance . . . as far as we are concerned. We have evolved to live in such an environment —that's what evolution is, changing to suit the environment — therefore this environment is perfectly in balance for us. It's quite possible that there are organisms on other planets in other star systems where the conditions are wildly different. It could be -50°C. They could breathe nitrogen, drink mercury, ingest rocks . . . all of which is not suitable for us.

lostmind said:
the odds of us being here by chance coupled with the perfection of earth is slim.

Virtually everything has a chance of occuring, no matter how small the probability is. This includes yer jigsaw puzzle comparison. ;)
 
Look at the human body, Its so perfect, how everything functions

Strange.. I wonder why many people need glasses, why many men go bald, why hearing fails, why the overwhelming majority of us are allergic to something. Some unfortunate people have their appendix explode, some people are born with a hole in their heart or one of a million inherent 'mistakes' that occur.

Unlike animals we have no claws, no sharp teeth. We can't run fast, fly, or remain underwater for long periods of time. We can't see in the dark, and we have no natural toxins or other such defence as seen in a large portion of the animal kingdom. We are a weak species, easily killed by creatures so small we can't even see them.

However, our brains have evolved beyond the strength, beyond the other physical attributes that we are clearly lacking. We have made weapons to help our lack of strength, glasses to aid our poor eyes, wheelchairs and crutches to steady our weak limbs.

We're not superior, we're not the chosen ones.. we're just different.
 
Isn't the Big Bang a supernatural event? Doesn't every event have to have a cause? What caused this supernatural event?
 
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