Inmates using cellphones

[Syzygys]

Technology reached the prison system:

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/12/why_its_troubling_that_charles.html

"Apparently California is having a hard time keeping contraband cell phones out of the hands of its prisoners. After finding "only" 1,400 in 2007, guards have confiscated 8,675 this year so far. Last year, one of them belonged to Charles Manson (was his ringtone "Helter Skelter"?), who made calls and sent texts to people in California, New Jersey, Florida, and British Columbia. Terry Thornton, spokeswoman for the California Department of Corrections, explains why this is troubling. "It's troubling that he had a cell phone since he's a person who got other people to murder on his behalf," Thornton says."

So let's say an inmate like Manson orders a hit on someone from prison using cellphones. This little act would go against the "prisoners won't hurt anyone outside of prison" anti-death penalty argument. Of course their argument would be that prisons should make sure that inmates can't have unauthorized access to cellphones.

And of course, the counter argument to that is: Can you make sure that it never happens?

Now smarter readers might have recognized the analogy. Less smart readers should just enjoy the holidays...

And of course dead man calls noone.

 

[glaucon]

That's insanity.

I wouldn't think it too difficult at all to disable the possibility.

As it stands outside of prisons, there are numerous places where one cannot make a call due to lack of cell towers. Besides, couldn't the particular service providers (to say nothing of the government..) locate, identify and disable service based upon location??

 

[Gremmie]

That's insanity.

I wouldn't think it too difficult at all to disable the possibility.

As it stands outside of prisons, there are numerous places where one cannot make a call due to lack of cell towers. Besides, couldn't the particular service providers (to say nothing of the government..) locate, identify and disable service based upon location??

I used to work in corrections...Pretty much all of the cell phones that are smuggled into the prisons, are the disposable type..Usually prepaid, or as inmates call them,one shots. They use them, then destroy them.

But, to answer the OP...Inmates have been calling hits from behind bars, for many years...No phone is needed...They either send coded messages thru the mail, or have their visitors relay what they want done.

Hell, most of the prison gangs have even created their own languages..So, there really isn't any sure-fire way to stop these people from communicating with anyone they choose.

And, of course there are some corrupt CO's as well...So, smuggling will never be completely stopped.

 

[glaucon]

I used to work in corrections...Pretty much all of the cell phones that are smuggled into the prisons, are the disposable type..Usually prepaid, or as inmates call them,one shots. They use them, then destroy them.

Holy. That must have been interesting....

Right, but the technology is still the same. The signal needs to get out to a tower...

 

[Gremmie]

Holy. That must have been interesting....

Right, but the technology is still the same. The signal needs to get out to a tower...

That's true...But, most prisons have towers nearby, for official use, and because prison staff use cell phones as well.

 

[cosmictraveler]

Mobile phone signal jammers are illegal in the US, but that doesn't

mean they're not used. They're apparently increasingly common, and are

expected to spread quite a bit in the near future. The FCC says that

using a jammer is considered "theft" of airwaves, because that

spectrum has been allocated as property to a commercial entity. The

writer of the article wonders, though, about "passive jamming" - such

as putting up buildings made of material that block out cell phone

signals. While some don't like the idea of having their signals

blocked - others think it may become a lot more popular in the future,

if only to have areas to "disconnect". The article points to the rise

of camera phones as a "bottom up surveillance society" as a reason why

we might want areas that have no signal. That makes little sense to

me, since anyone using a camera phone can still snap the picture, and

then just upload it later when they're in range of a signal. Still, it

will be interesting to see if anti-jamming equipment becomes popular.

Most people have no idea if a jammer is being used, since it just

looks like there's no service. This makes it very difficult to figure

out if someone is using a jammer, and means that no one's getting

caught using these things right now.



So the government could allow for blocking if they wanted to do so.

 

[Syzygys]

But, to answer the OP...Inmates have been calling hits from behind bars, for many years...No phone is needed...

I know and I agree. That's when the prison for life instead of DP is a stupid argument expecting that an inmate can not hurt anyone else anymore.

Still, with cellphones it got even easier. A druglord can easily run his empire from behind bars, so can a mob boss. No secret signals and messengers needed. But if we send them over to the other side, they won't be in business anymore...

My whole point was the stupidity of the "they can't hurt anyone anymore from behind bars", what the anti-DP people keep saying...

 

[Gremmie]

I know and I agree. That's when the prison for life instead of DP is a stupid argument expecting that an inmate can not hurt anyone else anymore.

Still, with cellphones it got even easier. A druglord can easily run his empire from behind bars, so can a mob boss. No secret signals and messengers needed. But if we send them over to the other side, they won't be in business anymore...

My whole point was the stupidity of the "they can't hurt anyone anymore from behind bars", what the anti-DP people keep saying...

I hear what you're saying....But as I said, there truly is no sure-fire way to keep any inmate from communicating with the outside world.

Where there's a will, there's always a way...And, as I mentioned, there will always be corrupt prison staff, that will do anything for a buck...It's a sad reality. This is one of the main reasons, that I left corrections.. I lost faith in the system, and those that are in positions of trust.

I'm in Law Enforcement now, and of course, I see problems with this job as well...But, I just try to do what's best.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

My whole point was the stupidity of the "they can't hurt anyone anymore from behind bars", what the anti-DP people keep saying...

I'm an opponent of killing in the name of "justice," but I also know that there are no absolutes in life. The classic example is the terrorist. Put him in jail and his buddies will kidnap twenty of your people and promise to kill them in seven days if he's not released.

Mob bosses fall into a similar category since their power in the organization is not diminished by incarceration. Even if they don't kill anybody they can coordinate so much mayhem from behind bars that their impact on civilization is too great to be tolerated.

But other than specific, rational exceptions like these, I remain opposed to it. Killing someone doesn't punish him, because he's dead and doesn't even remember that you did it, much less regret the things that motivated you to kill him. It just punishes all the people who loved him, most of whom don't deserve the punishment.

Some of them might be so angry that they'll come after you and your whole family for revenge, and you'll have the Hatfields and the McCoys all over again. Revenge is the most evil and destructive of all emotions. It has no place in civilization and the government, of all institutions, must not practice it, thereby sending us the message that sometimes it might be all right.

As for cell signals in prisons. Huh??? I can't get a cell signal in the basement of the church where my go club meets every Friday night. I can't get a cell signal in the Washington Metro stations. I can barely get one in the basement of my own townhouse, which is on a grade and has a walkout door on one side.

I can't believe that modern technology can't build a prison that blocks cell signals. Somebody just isn't trying.

 

[spidergoat]

If you kill someone because someone else in prison (for life) told you, that's your own damn crime. What power does Manson have to order "hits"? What is he some mafioso?

 

[Syzygys]

Some of them might be so angry that they'll come after you and your whole family for revenge, and you'll have the Hatfields and the McCoys all over again.

I guess you are right, so we should just restrain ourself from any kind of punishment/justice to be carried out. After all, we wouldn't want to hurt criminals' sensitive feelings.

Also, the day can not be far when the lack of cellphones in prisons will be ruled unconstitutional....

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Personally I don't see why a prisoner shouldn't be allowed a cell phone. I mean you don't need a cell phone to order a hit, hell you can just relay the information when someone comes to visit.

What else do they have to do anyway? Hey, as long as they pay their bills I couldn't care less if they use a cell phone.

I even think they should be allowed their own computers so they can jerk off to porn. Its better than having them jam their dicks up each other's arses:shrug:

 

[Syzygys]

Personally I don't see why a prisoner shouldn't be allowed a cell phone.

Probably it has something to do with the punishment part of the justice system. If they can have everything, they might as well could be in house arrest.
You get certain (normal) rights like phonecalls as reward for good behaviour....

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Probably it has something to do with the punishment part of the justice system. If they can have everything, they might as well could be in house arrest.
You get certain (normal) rights like phonecalls as reward for good behaviour....

Ah I doubt having a cell phone is going to make them feel all comfy and cozy as if they were at home.

 

[Tiassa]

The things people will say in order to feel that killing rush

This little act would go against the "prisoners won't hurt anyone outside of prison" anti-death penalty argument.

How interesting. So we should sanction state-commissioned homicide because prison officials are incompetent?

Much easier, I suppose, to just kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out.

 

[Syzygys]

Ah I doubt having a cell phone is going to make them feel all comfy and cozy as if they were at home.

As long as we block the sexlines....

By the way I read about a dude who was using the prison library's computer to commit fraud, so maybe little things like these have something to do with it....

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

I guess you are right, so we should just restrain ourself from any kind of punishment/justice to be carried out. After all, we wouldn't want to hurt criminals' sensitive feelings.

I guess the difference between us is that I regard killing someone as a qualitatively different sort of activity than throwing them in jail, making them do community service, or levying a fine. You apparently think it's all the same thing. I'll remind you of that next time you have to pay a $250 fine for driving too fast. Why not just kill you and get it over with?

When you send a guy to prison his kids can come visit him and continue to feel like they have a father, no matter how dysfunctional. They may even be impressed by the fact that he's there because he did something terrible and maybe they should try real hard not to follow the same path through their lives. A negative role model.

But when you kill him, all they remember is that you're the S.O.B. who killed their daddy. It becomes their mission in life to exact retribution from you, just as you did from him. Never forget that bereaved people are irrational, selfish, and driven by revenge. This is not a cycle that the government should be supporting!

Ah I doubt having a cell phone is going to make them feel all comfy and cozy as if they were at home.

A great many, probably most, of these people come from pretty lousy homes. Give 'em cable TV, the internet and a cellphone, and they may feel like they have a better life than they had before... because they do! Maybe they don't have a certain sort of "freedom," but their fathers probably beat them at home and what kind of freedom is that? Studies show that the majority of men in U.S. prisons had violent, abusive fathers.

 

[Syzygys]

When you send a guy to prison his kids can come visit him and continue to feel like they have a father, no matter how dysfunctional.

Unfortunatelly his victim's kids don't have the same choice/chance, so why the fuck should we care about the criminals' family more than the victims' ????

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Unfortunatelly his victim's kids don't have the same choice/chance, so why the fuck should we care about the criminals' family more than the victims' ????

We don't care more. We do what we can for both of them. Unfortunately there's less that we can do for the victim's children, but that's no excuse to shortchange the killer's children. They're all children and they all deserve the best break they can get.

Geeze dude, why do you talk as if the killer's children should be somehow held responsible and punished for the deeds of their father? That's the morality of the Bronze Age! And we all know how that worked out.

It would make far more sense to hold parents responsible for the deeds of their children. They're the ones who made the little motherfuckers what they are, by abandoning their mother, throwing their father out of the house, not even knowing who their father is, treating them like punching bags, letting them roam the streets, not caring if they're in school, not knowing who their friends are... or at the other end of the spectrum, being so busy making money that they're raised by TV sets and nannies who don't speak English.

 

[Syzygys]

That's the morality of the Bronze Age! And we all know how that worked out.

How did it work out? I think it worked out just fine, since we survived the Bronze Age.

By the way applying your logic, we should be harder on orphans and people without close relatives/friends, because their punishment doesn't hurt others.

I am sure this guy's son and daughter are very earnest to visit him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btk_killer

"Rader is now being held in the EDCF Special Management unit, also known as solitary confinement, for "the inmate's own protection", a designation he most likely will retain for the remainder of his incarceration. He is confined to the cell 23 hours a day with the exception of voluntary solo one-hour exercise yard time, and access to the shower three times per week.

Beginning April 23, 2006, having reached "Incentive Level Two", Rader has been allowed to purchase and watch television, purchase and listen to the radio, receive and read magazines, and have other privileges for good behavior. The victims' families disagreed with this decision."

--------------------------

I quoted the last part, because it is relevant to the discussion. As I mentioned earlier, certain normal rights in life are used in prison as incentives.