IMAX theaters sensor volcano film?!?

[Michael]

I’m afraid it’s another sign of the times . . . .

IMAX theaters reject film over evolution

CHARLESTON, South Carolina (AP) -- IMAX theaters in several Southern cities have decided not to show a film on volcanoes out of concern that its references to evolution might offend those with fundamental religious beliefs.

How do we go about setting a standard such that all elementary and high schools are legally required to teach evolution as fact? Is there any form of legislation that can be passed? How do we go about passing it?

You know, perhaps because of the makeup of this board we often crack a few jokes of the fundamentally religious in America (such as: Christian Right Lobbies To Overturn Second Law Of Thermodynamics) Yet, like I mentioned in another post about an American friend of mine who called Thomas Jefferson (and other foundering fathers) nut cases because of their beliefs, or lack there of, in Christianity. We always joke about it, how Americans are religious wackos - especially in the south; but it’s not funny anymore.
I think it is getting serious.

Now is the time we in the scientific community take a united stand and make it evident that Evolution is a fact and no the Earth is not around 6000 year old.

We have a concerted effort on the part of the Xians to dismantle one of the most underlying support structures of our very Nationhood – that being separation of church and state. We have a fundamental Xian president riding shotgun over the constitution. We all know that it’s nearly impossible to pry this meme out of infected neurocircuitry. Therefore the only real hope we have is to inoculate as early as possible - we need to educate children that evolution is a fact.

The next time it may not be as minor as an IMAX movie ....

 

[spidergoat]

I started a thread about this in the science and society section. What's so weird about it is that it's self censorship. ..and people thought you needed a totalitarian government to enforce such idiocy.

 

[Michael]

I started a thread about this in the science and society section. What's so weird about it is that it's self censorship. ..and people thought you needed a totalitarian government to enforce such idiocy.

Do you know if there is any sort of organization in the US that is activily seeking to do something about the state of education concerning evolution?

 

[-Bob-]

This is nothing new... high school texts in the US barely mentioned evolution until the 1950's.

Legislating to prevent a movie theater from showing or not showing, is censorship. First amendment rights, plain and simple. People have a right to be idiots.

Therefore the only real hope we have is to inoculate as early as possible - we need to educate children that evolution is a fact.

Righto. And that means having children. More than the Xtians, which is tough. And breeding them independently of families.

Because in a free country, we also have a right to inoculate and brainwash our own children.

 

[Baron Max]

Now is the time we in the scientific community take a united stand and make it evident that Evolution is a fact ...

Is evolution a fact or a theory? Many, many scientists don't exactly agree, you know. Many scientists point to evolution as a theory to answer how and why a specie changes over time, but that doesn't answer where they came from in the first place.

You say evolution is fact, right? then you must have proof, right? If so, what is it?

As to the movie ....why can't the PRIVATE movie theatre show whatever movie they want or not? IMAX is NOT a government-run enterprise, is it?

Baron Max

 

[Michael]

This is nothing new... high school texts in the US barely mentioned evolution until the 1950's.

Yes, and I’m sure computer programming wasn’t a hot topic either – so what?

Legislating to prevent a movie theater from showing or not showing, is censorship. First amendment rights, plain and simple. People have a right to be idiots.

I did not mention anything about legislating against or for movie theaters to show anything.

I said I would like to see a Law passed that makes it mandatory that each and every American child that is educated in a public school has a proper education on the biological process called evolution. I believe it is mandatory that all children read, write, add, subtract, etcetera to obtain a high school diploma. Well, I think that it is of utmost importance to include on this list of basic knowledge a proper education in Evolution.

Righto. And that means having children. More than the Xtians, which is tough. And breeding them independently of families.

I’m not following you there.

It means making sure that ALL American children, receive a proper education.

Because in a free country, we also have a right to inoculate and brainwash our own children.

"Free" country? All countries have degrees of freedom, Bob, as well as rule-of-law - the USA is no exception. "Freedom" is relative.

As a society we decide on what is an acceptable education. Your notion we can brainwash our children is not the same as we can do whatever we like with our children. All children MUST be enrolled in some form of education. Whether you want them to do so or not. To withhold this education is against the Law of the USA. You will go to jail and your child taken from you - should you choose to refuse this basic education to your child. They must be regularly tested to ensure that they are receiving a proper education. You can not lock your child away and restrict them from learning – that is against the Law in the “Free” US of A (ironically, other countries do allow that particular freedom – funny that, maybe you’re not so free :bugeye:

As such, within the framework of the Law of the USA I would like to see Evolution included as basic knowledge that all children must learn in order to receive a High school education.

Is evolution a fact or a theory? Many, many scientists don't exactly agree, you know. Many scientists point to evolution as a theory to answer how and why a specie changes over time, but that doesn't answer where they came from in the first place.

You say evolution is fact, right? then you must have proof, right? If so, what is it?

As to the movie ....why can't the PRIVATE movie theatre show whatever movie they want or not? IMAX is NOT a government-run enterprise, is it?

Baron Max

Baron, hello.
1) Evolution is a fact; simply put, it’s the process of change within a population.
2) Evolution does not address "where they came from in the first place" as you can see by the first statement - a population is already here. [That would be the many “Theories of Abiogenesis”]
3) For “proof” simply speak with a dog breeder, or better read any scientifically-reviewed book on the topic evolution.
4) Yes, IMAX can self censor – but the fact that they are is what I’m worried about.

 

[scorpius]

Is evolution a fact or a theory? Many, many scientists don't exactly agree, you know. Many scientists point to evolution as a theory to answer how and why a specie changes over time, but that doesn't answer where they came from in the first place.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

 

[-Bob-]

Yes, and I’m sure computer programming wasn’t a hot topic either – so what?

Nothing. It's just part of my point that this attitude merely being sustained in the US.

I did not mention anything about legislating against or for movie theaters to show anything.

'kay

I said I would like to see a Law passed that makes it mandatory that each and every American child that is educated in a public school has a proper education on the biological process called evolution. I believe it is mandatory that all children read, write, add, subtract, etcetera to obtain a high school diploma. Well, I think that it is of utmost importance to include on this list of basic knowledge a proper education in Evolution.

Ever heard of home schooling? Private school? If it comes to that in the south, you betcha they'll do it. Many already do.

"Free" country? All countries have degrees of freedom, Bob, as well as rule-of-law - the USA is no exception. "Freedom" is relative.

I agree. I was only referring to our freedom to indoctrinate our children. That's what you're suggesting, isn't it?

As a society we decide on what is an acceptable education. Your notion we can brainwash our children is not the same as we can do whatever we like with our children. All children MUST be enrolled in some form of education. Whether you want them to do so or not. To withhold this education is against the Law of the USA. You will go to jail and your child taken from you - should you choose to refuse this basic education to your child. They must be regularly tested to ensure that they are receiving a proper education. You can not lock your child away and restrict them from learning – that is against the Law in the “Free” US of A (ironically, other countries do allow that particular freedom – funny that, maybe you’re not so free :bugeye:

I wasn't even aware that there were any laws of the sort. Are high-school dropouts breaking the law then? Or does it work up to a certain grade level? And what about home school?

You sure as hell can 'indoctrinate' your child... you can teach them to pass a test on evolution, but not to believe in it.

 

[Michael]

Ever heard of home schooling? Private school? If it comes to that in the south, you betcha they'll do it. Many already do..

true, but I believe the children are still tested by the State to ensure they are receiving a proper education. And I am fine with home schooling, it is their children they can home school them.

I agree. I was only referring to our freedom to indoctrinate our children. That's what you're suggesting, isn't it?

Well, everything is indoctrination. We don’t choose to think in English (x language), we’re indoctrinated to think in it.

I wasn't even aware that there were any laws of the sort. Are high-school dropouts breaking the law then? Or does it work up to a certain grade level? And what about home school?

Yes there are laws and I’m not sure if they are the same for all States. No, an 8 year old child can not drop-out of school. But at a certain age, if they have not graduated, they can choose to quite/drop-out.

You sure as hell can 'indoctrinate' your child... you can teach them to pass a test on evolution, but not to believe in it.

True, but once that truth has been firmly established there’s really no turning back. I would think that 99.9% of most people that have learned exactly what we mean by “evolution” will not then reject it. A process of change has nothing to say about God and evolution makes not statements about religion. Well, no more than a basic geology course would say – in so much as the Earth is very old, a prerequisite for evolution to occur.

 

[Sebastian B.]

I still remember when i was in an American elementary school and the teacher made us do projects about Gorillas or something. I was one of the very few that mentioned evolution at all (i believe it was a requirement for the project), one girl simply said "evolution never happened; it was all Adam and Eve" and simply left that part of the project out with no interest to learn about it whatsoever.

And this was not in the south, this was in New Jersey.

The fact that i remember this scene from so many years ago amazes me, but even at the young age i was, i was still somewhat surprised to hear someone brush off knowledge so quickly and confidently in the name of religion.

 

[spidergoat]

Is evolution a fact or a theory? Many, many scientists don't exactly agree, you know. Many scientists point to evolution as a theory to answer how and why a specie changes over time, but that doesn't answer where they came from in the first place.

You say evolution is fact, right? then you must have proof, right? If so, what is it?

As to the movie ....why can't the PRIVATE movie theatre show whatever movie they want or not? IMAX is NOT a government-run enterprise, is it?

Baron Max

Both, the scientific concepts of theories and facts are somwhat different than the colloquial definitions. Evolution is a theory that is still evolving, but, it is also the consensus of almost all scientists that, in it's present state, it comes as close to being an accurate model for how the species develop (since the first one), as science is able to make. It is a fact that species evolve, but the actual mechanisms are complex. It was recently discovered that some plants can fix errors in their genes that they inherited from their parents. Their parents had a mutation that their grandparents did not, and the "child" plants reverted back to the grandparent's form of the gene. So, in science, there is always more to discover, but the major precepts of evolutionary theory are true.

The point isn't that IMAX should be allowed to show movies they can sell tickets for, it's more a reflection of the American prejudice for science, which I feel is relatively new. During Kennedy's administration, everyone was worried about the Russians, and science and math teaching prospered. I guess now that we don't need it any more, we can revert back to our own theological fantasy world.

 

[SkinWalker]

Is evolution a fact or a theory? Many, many scientists don't exactly agree, you know.

Really? Which ones? Name one scientist that doesn't have a religious agenda that doesn't agree that evolution is a fact. Evolution is a fact. How it occured is a theory.

As to the movie ....why can't the PRIVATE movie theatre show whatever movie they want or not? IMAX is NOT a government-run enterprise, is it?

But the Fort Worth Museum of Science and History, where the IMAX theater is housed is a publically funded organization. One that purports to be a museum of "science" and "history."

I wrote them, asking for clarification on that very issue, just two days ago. I've yet to receive a response.

 

[SkinWalker]

Here's the response I got today:

From: "FWMSH4" <fwmsh4@fwmsh.org>
To: <SPAMFREE@gmail.com>
Subject: IMAX film Volcanoes
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:38:11 -0600
On behalf of the Fort Worth Museum of Science and History, we are writing to let you know how much we sincerely appreciate your interest in the Museum and the programs and films we show at the Omni Theater. In light of the current interest in the film, Volcanoes of the Deep Sea, the Museum will be showing the film, which will open soon. Please check our website, www.fortworthmuseum.org, for specific show times.

The original decision not to show the film for a variety of reasons received coverage in The New York Times and in the Star-Telegram on Saturday, March 19, 2005. The articles focused on IMAX theaters not showing movies that mention evolution for fear of offending people who would object. Readers of the articles understandably gained the impression that the Museum lacks the willingness to present scientific viewpoints in an uncensored environment, which is incorrect. [emphasis there's]

The results of a survey taken after prescreening Volcanoes revealed that several individuals were concerned about its references to evolution; however, the Museum would like to set the record straight: Those concerns were not the determining factor as to why we did not show the film. The survey indicated that the film simply did not have the potential for broad audience interest compared to other films under consideration at the time. Importantly, we also want you to know that the Omni Theater has also shown Cosmic Voyage and is currently showing Aliens of the Deep, which presents much of the same science as Volcanoes of the Deep Sea.

We want to ensure that you know the Museum supports the position that evolution is a major unifying concept of science. We use scientific evidence in our wide-ranging presentations and interpretations of how life has changed over time. But we also want you to know that the Museum respects the beliefs of its guests and acknowledges that they are able to make their own decisions about science-related programs.

Again, thank you for your interest in the Museum. We welcome you to come and see Volcanoes of the Deep Sea this April.

Sincerely Yours,
Your Friends at the Fort Worth Museum of Science and History

Either they truly didn't censor based on religious concerns, or they caved to the pressures that the science-minded patrons gave them in response to the articles in various newspapers and online sources.

 

[Michael]

Well I for one am very happy to hear that!