Illegal to have a home not connected to municipal supply grid?

[Kittamaru]

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2014/02/22/court-rules-off-the-grid-living-is-illegal/

Living off the grid is illegal in Cape Coral, Florida, according to a court ruling Thursday.

Special Magistrate Harold S. Eskin ruled that the city’s codes allow Robin Speronis to live without utility power but she is still requiredto hook her home to the city’s water system. Her alternative source of power must be approved by the city, Eskin said.

As previously reported in Off The Grid News, Speronis has been fighting the city of Cape Coral since November when a code enforcement officer tried to evict her from her home for living without utilities. The city contends that Speronis violated the International Property Maintenance Code by relying on rain water instead of the city water system and solar panels instead of the electric grid.

“It was a mental fistfight,” Speronis’ attorney Todd Allen said of Eskin’s review of his clients’ case. “There’s an inherent conflict in the code.”

Part of the conflict: She must hook up to the water system, although officials acknowledge she does not have to use it.

Speronis told Off The Grid News in February she hopes to win her case and set a precedent for others in her situation. After court Thursday, Speronis told Off The Grid News that she actually won on two of three counts, although she acknowledged her legal battle is far from over.

“But what happens in the courtroom is much less important than touching people’s hearts and minds,” she said. “I think that we are continuing to be successful in doing just that and I am so pleased — there is hope! [Friday] morning, as I took my two hour walk, there was a young man, unknown to me, who drove by me, tooted his horn and said, ‘Robin, congratulations on your victory yesterday, keep up the fight and God bless you.’ That is beautiful.”

The above is just a snippet... but hole-eee-shit what is going on in this country...

 

[billvon]

Yeah, this has been going around the off-grid community for a while. I understand where such rules come from, but like the old saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[joepistole]

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2014/02/22/court-rules-off-the-grid-living-is-illegal/



The above is just a snippet... but hole-eee-shit what is going on in this country...

I'm surprised someone would waste their time and money challenging this, this is well established law in every state in the Union. State and local government routinely set and enforce building codes. You may not like them. They may be silly. They may be inconsistently enforced. But government does have the right to make those laws.

Homeowners association's can envoke similar rules.

 

[Kittamaru]

Joe - how, exactly, can they deem it "illegal" to not use a municipal supply? So long as the requirement is met in some way, that should be sufficient.

 

[billvon]

Joe - how, exactly, can they deem it "illegal" to not use a municipal supply? So long as the requirement is met in some way, that should be sufficient.

"Joe?"

If you were directing that at me, then it came from the desire for sanitation - that everyone should have a safe way to dispose of bodily waste. This protects other people, not just the homeowner. Good idea right? The problem is that then a government bureaucracy gets hold of it and says "well, that sounds to me like everyone should have water. How are you going to flush your toilet without water? It's just common sense."

 

[joepistole]

Joe - how, exactly, can they deem it "illegal" to not use a municipal supply? So long as the requirement is met in some way, that should be sufficient.

Easy, they just pass a law. I've owned homes, built home and commercial real estate in different states, and in every jurisdiction they have similar laws.

One of the first homes I owned in Ohio had its own sewer system. It was in an unincorporated area. The county passed an ordinance that all homes must connect to the county sewer system. So all homeowners in this area were forced to destroy their septic systems and pay to connect to the county sewer system.

If you don't comply, they can revoke your certificate of occupancy and then you are in trouble.

And as I mentioned homeowner associations can have similar powers.

 

[Dr_Toad]

To me, common sense might be paying for a security light with your grid hook-up, and run the rest on an unmetered service from your collectors of whatever nature.

 

[joepistole]

To me, common sense might be paying for a security light with your grid hook-up, and run the rest on an unmetered service from your collectors of whatever nature.

I heard the Koch brothers were pushing a law in Oklahoma which would require folks with solar panels to pay a connection fee to the electrical utility.

 

[Kittamaru]

"Joe?"

If you were directing that at me, then it came from the desire for sanitation - that everyone should have a safe way to dispose of bodily waste. This protects other people, not just the homeowner. Good idea right? The problem is that then a government bureaucracy gets hold of it and says "well, that sounds to me like everyone should have water. How are you going to flush your toilet without water? It's just common sense."

I apologize - I was replying to joepistol (didn't see your reply at the time, my bad)

I heard the Koch brothers were pushing a law in Oklahoma which would require folks with solar panels to pay a connection fee to the electrical utility.

What a shock... the Koch brothers pushing their way in law with money... bastards

 

[joepistole]

"Joe?"

If you were directing that at me, then it came from the desire for sanitation - that everyone should have a safe way to dispose of bodily waste. This protects other people, not just the homeowner. Good idea right? The problem is that then a government bureaucracy gets hold of it and says "well, that sounds to me like everyone should have water. How are you going to flush your toilet without water? It's just common sense."

Government motivation isn't really relevant here. Governments could be motivated by public health or by financial reasons. The point is government has this power and it has been and is routinely exercised every day in every state in the Union.

If people don't like it, their remedy is the ballot box, not the courtroom.

 

[Kittamaru]

Except the ballot box remedy doesn't work.

Example: You elect a different person into the office of the president.

Same fools in congress/house can stonewall him/her from doing anything, despite his/her best intentions... and thus, nothing changes.

 

[sculptor]

We do not choose who will run for president. The political parties have that choice, then we get to vote for one or the other.
After which, in most states, the electoral college can follow the choice indicated by our votes or not as they choose.

 

[joepistole]

Except the ballot box remedy doesn't work.

Example: You elect a different person into the office of the president.

Same fools in congress/house can stonewall him/her from doing anything, despite his/her best intentions... and thus, nothing changes.

Well fortunately the fools in Washington do not make law or regulate at this level (federal facilities excluded). The people/fools a fault here are the state, county or municipal fools. I don't know the particulars of the instance you mentioned. But I think she would be better served by addressing the issue the appropriate municipal or county governments. The solution is a political.

But it shouldn't be a surprise, government does have the power to make laws like this, they do it all the time and have been for a very long time.

On another note, our electoral system is deeply flawed. Money speaks loudly in our electoral system and can drown out the voices of the people it is supposed to represent. But one doesn't always need to oust the fools at the ballot box. Sometimes a little complaining to the right people goes along way. It has worked for me.

 

[danshawen]

With every freedom comes responsibility. You cannot even walk down the street on a sidewalk without following certain rules of behavior. People paid tax and tax was collected to pay for those streets and sidewalks, so look out if you intend to use some conveyance or other thing that might damage them. You can't walk down most streets stark naked. You have to obey traffic regulations designed to make streets and sidewalks safe for pedestrians and motorists. Freedom, like truth, is a value and not an absolute, not something to be taken for granted or advantage of without a consideration of the interests of those who have provided such facilities for your enjoyment.

Any other questions or comments, class?

 

[AlexG]

Zoning laws are come up with by committee, and so seldom make sense.

 

[AlexG]

I can however appreciate the rational which tries to standardize some things which municipal workers will have to deal with in a given community. Also note that the hookups must be there, but they don't have to be used.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

America is the new Russia.
All they need are Gulags with slave labour.
Places where people who cause trouble or whose lifestyle is not approved of, are kept detained and work for a pittance.

 

[Russ_Watters]

Joe - how, exactly, can they deem it "illegal" to not use a municipal supply?

It isn't illegal to not use a municipal supply: it is illegal to not be hooked up to the municipal supply.

 

[Kittamaru]

It isn't illegal to not use a municipal supply: it is illegal to not be hooked up to the municipal supply.

Okay... much the same then - how is/can that be illegal? What practical reason can be given for why this is illegal, other than because the suppliers have lobbied enough and are mad that they can't get their money?

 

[joepistole]

Okay... much the same then - how is/can that be illegal? What practical reason can be given for why this is illegal, other than because the suppliers have lobbied enough and are mad that they can't get their money?

Easy, as has been repeatedly noted, it is the law.