If...

[davewhite04]

The universe came into existence 15billion years ago and our galaxy was formed around 9billion years ago, this allows ALOT(6 billion years) of time for an older galaxy to produce intelligent life, that by now would be far more advanced then us.

So maybe someone is observing us...

Is my logic faulty?

Bare in mind that a planet very similar to ours, though 6 times the size, exists within OUR galaxy!

 

[cosmictraveler]

I agree and here's one of them ....

 

[spidergoat]

It depends what you mean by advanced, but it is logical to assume there are other life forms living out there somewhere.

 

[Omega133]

Yeah, I too think there are other species out there. But if they were watching us wouldn't they have contacted us by now?

 

[davewhite04]

It depends what you mean by advanced, but it is logical to assume there are other life forms living out there somewhere.

I think there could be simple life forms even within our solar system, like on europa, the orbiting planet/moon of jupiter, event though it is small it has lots of water but it is extremely cold, like -220. But if bacteria can evolve in inhospitable conditions then there could be fish like creators, pretty advanced fish like creatures living under the 15mile layers of ice in there own little world.

It would be incredible to be able to drill down there and see what's under the ice.

just a thought.

 

[davewhite04]

Yeah, I too think there are other species out there. But if they were watching us wouldn't they have contacted us by now?

It's getting a bit star wars like, but perhaps they are benevolent beings that are just studying us, far out stuff and maybe a bit of a long shot, the benevolent bit, as there must be some real bad guys out there if there are good guys if there are any guys at all.

 

[davewhite04]

I'm getting a lot of these ideas from reading/watching Stephen Hawkins, he has give me a new perspective of things.

 

[Acitnoids]

Originally Posted by davewhite04
The universe came into existence 15 billion years ago and our galaxy was formed around 9billion years ago, this allows ALOT (6 billion years) of time for an older galaxy to produce intelligent life, that by now would be far more advanced than us.

Alright. Seeing as this is pseudo, I'll ham it up a bit. First off, the milky way is a conglomeration of smaller galaxies that have been forming sense galaxies could form. To say that life could have formed in the "6 billion years" between the big bang and the formation of what we now cosider to be our milky way (which you didn't) is an interesting yet misguided question to say the least. Secondly, I consider the formation of life to be another phase trasition of the universe (like the formation of quarks, light atoms, light, stars, dust, heavy atoms, planetoids, basic life, planets and finally advanced life). These transitions take place when their particular enviroments are primed for such an occurrence. Thirdly, the idea that there are other creatures in the universe who are far more intelligent than us is very much a natural conclusion but, this does not give us the right (just yet) to declare it so. Finally. As far as I know, there are life forms that can exist in the vacuum of space. Who's to say that intelligent life can not move freely through interstellar space. If this kind of life formed shortly after the formation of stars then these space loving organisms could have possibly migrated everywhere. After all, space is a much more forgiving enviroment today than it was back then.
.
P.S. You should check out Carl Sagan.

 

[davewhite04]

Alright. Seeing as this is pseudo, I'll ham it up a bit. First off, the milky way is a conglomeration of smaller galaxies that have been forming sense galaxies could form. To say that life could have formed in the "6 billion years" between the big bang and the formation of what we now cosider to be our milky way (which you didn't) is an interesting yet misguided question to say the least.

I think I see what you mean. Are you saying that it might have taken the older galaxies more or even less time to form?

Secondly, I consider the formation of life to be another phase trasition of the universe (like the formation of quarks, light atoms, light, stars, dust, heavy atoms, planetoids, basic life, plants and finally advanced life). These transitions take place when their particular enviroments are primed for such an occurrence.

It does seem logical to me your belief considering the number of stars and galaxies we're talking about.

Thirdly, the idea that there are other creatures in the universe who are far more intelligent than us is very much a natural conclusion but, this does not give us the right (just yet) to declare it so. Finally. As far as I know, there are life forms that can exist in the vacuum of space. Who's to say that intelligent life can not move freely through interstellar space. If this kind of life formed shortly after the formation of stars then these space loving organisms could have possibly migrated everywhere. After all, space is a much more forgiving enviroment today than it was back then.

Yes. Even if some intelligent beings had just a 200 thousand year head start on us they could be light years ahead technologically speaking.

P.S. You should check out Carl Sagan.

Thanks, I think I will

 

[Acitnoids]

Originally Posted by davewhite04
I think I see what you mean. Are you saying that it might have taken the older galaxies more or even less time to form?

This is a relative question. When I think of an older galaxy I envision a higher ratio of population II & III stars. Population III stars were the first stars to form after the big bang, all of them exploded very early in the universes evolution. After dying out they left behind clouds of gases along with varying quantities of heavier elements which were then picked-up by the next population of stars and so on. So, I guess you could also say younger galaxies have lower concentrations of organic compounds while the galaxies we see around us today are loaded with them (because their older).

Yes. Even if some intelligent beings had just 200 thousand hear head start on us theh could be light years ahead technologically speaking.

The Earth is four and a half billion years old and the first time we "split the atom" was less than one-hundred years ago. With all the academic pitfalls we've had to endure throughout the ages, ... I'll bet a different life form could accomplish all we have (and more) in half the time it took us.

 

[davewhite04]

This is a relative question. When I think of an older galaxy I envision a higher ratio of population II & III stars. Population III stars were the first stars to form after the big bang, all of them exploded very early in the universes evolution. After dying out they left behind clouds of gases along with varying quantities of heavier elements which were then picked-up by the next population of stars and so on. So, I guess you could also say younger galaxies have lower concentrations of organic compounds while the galaxies we see around us today are loaded with them (because their older).

Yep, that makes sense. So the chance of life(similar to us, perhaps even by sight, see below) in older galaxies increases!

The Earth is four and a half billion years old and the first time we "split the atom" was less than one-hundred years ago. With all the academic pitfalls we've had to endure throughout the ages, ... I'll bet a different life form could accomplish all we have (and more) in half the time it took us.

Well this is debatable, maybe they have had worse problems then us but a few hundred years makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. I think that there MUST be life that is ancient out there, like hundreds of thousands of years older then us.

I think it is almost impossible for there not to be life, and if we use our planet as an example, it seems the most basic life form over time can become extremely complex, therefore it makes sense to me that the ancient ones will be far more advanced than us

Human Body consists of:
Oxygen (65%)
Carbon (18%)
Hydrogen (10%)
Nitrogen (3%)
Calcium (1.5%)
Phosphorus (1.0%)
Potassium (0.35%)
Sulfur (0.25%)
Sodium (0.15%)
Magnesium (0.05%)
Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Molybdenum, Fluorine, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Cobalt, Iron (0.70%)
Lithium, Strontium, Aluminum, Silicon, Lead, Vanadium, Arsenic, Bromine (trace amounts)
Reference: H. A. Harper, V. W. Rodwell, P. A. Mayes, Review of Physiological Chemistry, 16th ed., Lange Medical Publications, Los Altos, California 1977.

 

[Acitnoids]

Originally Posted by davewhite04
Yep, that makes sense. So the chances of life (...) in older galaxies increases!

Once again, you have to define what you mean by old. Do you mean the first galaxies to come into existence (which would be old by our standards because we are relatively young) or the galaxies we see around us today (which would be old by the universes standards because it is so old). An interesting thing about the different atoms found in the human body is that they reflect the abundance of heavy metals found in our sun so if you're looking for human like life, that couldn't have evolved (in our local area) until relatively recently (after population II stars began to go supernova). I agee that life could have formed elsewhere before life on Earth and, if it did, those organisms could very well be more advanced than us but I don't think a civilization would have to be older than human life to surpass our technology and understanding.

 

[davewhite04]

Once again, you have to define what you mean by old. Do you mean the first galaxies to come into existence (which would be old by our standards because we are relatively young) or the galaxies we see around us today (which would be old by the universes standards because it is so old).

I was referring the galaxies that first came into existence. Did you mean "which we see around us today which would be young by the universes standards because it is so old"?

An interesting thing about the different atoms found in the human body is that they reflect the abundance of heavy metals found in our sun so if you're looking for human like life, that couldn't have evolved (in our local area) until relatively recently (after population II stars began to go supernova).

Yes I know, and since all stars are made up of the same heavy metals it's kind of mind blowing. What do you mean by population II stars?

I agee that life could have formed elsewhere before life on Earth and, if it did, those organisms could very well be more advanced than us but I don't think a civilization would have to be older than human life to surpass our technology and understanding.

I agree to a certain extent, I wonder if evolution is a universal law, including time in the equation!?

Thinking on it, I don't think so as regards evolution being a universal law, including time in the equation. I think its relative to the environment perhaps.

 

[Acitnoids]

Originally Posted by davewhite04
I was referring to the galaxies that first came onto existence. Did you mean "which we see around us today which would be young by the universes standards because it is so old"?

The galaxies we see around us today have had about fourteen billion years to evolve so, according to the universe, the galaxies we see around us today would be about as old as the universe.

What did you mean by population II stars?

I'm not going to spell it out for you but if you do a google search on "population I, II & III stars", you'll see what I mean.

 

[davewhite04]

The galaxies we see around us today have had about fourteen billion years to evolve so, according to the universe, the galaxies we see around us today would be about as old as the universe.

I didn't know this. I have read that our galaxy is around 10billion years old... that doesn't really add anything to the discussion other then life might be a lot closer then I thought.

I'm not going to spell it out for you but if you do a google search on "population I, II & III stars", you'll see what I mean.

Chill. I now know what it means.