if the bible is the Word, then Gods not fit to follow. (for preachers c2o and lori 7)

the preacher

fur is loose 666
Registered Senior Member
Dear Believer:

I do not accept the Bible as God’s word because it contains thousand of errancies and contradictions that can not be solved, only rationalized. I refuse to accept Jesus as my personal savior, for his behavior and teachings often expose one who should be escaped and not worshipped. I ask that you read this pamphlet in light of the bible’s teachings; Christians should be “open to reason” (James 3:17 RSV), that we should “reason together” (Isaiah 1:18) and “he who hates correction will die” (Proverbs 15:10) to understand my perspective that the bible has MANY shortcomings.

1. According to your Bible I am to believe that human kind is sinful for Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge. Why are we being punished for the original sin? After all, they ate the forbidden fruit, we didn’t. Reason would lead one to say it’s their problem, not ours. Even the bible contradicts itself by claiming in Deuteronomy 24:16, “children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers.”

2. We are told that the Bible has no scientific errors and is utterly perfect/protected, yet it says the bat is a bird (Leviticus 11:13 & 19), hares chew the cud (Leviticus 11:5-6), and some fowl (Leviticus 11:20-21) and insects (Leviticus 11:22-23) have four legs.

3. Heaven is supposed to be a perfect place. It is of course, the place you strive for and name “salvation”. Yet, it experienced a war (Revelation 12:7). How can there be a war in a perfect place and if it happened before why couldn’t it happen again? Why would I want to go to a place in which war can occur? That’s exactly what I’m trying to escape, aren’t you?

4. We are told salvation is obtained by faith alone (John 3:18 & 36) and then the Bible claims that it is repentance that shall save us (2 Peter 3:9) yet Jesus told a man to follow the Commandments-Matthew 19:16-1 8 (saving by works)-if he wanted eternal life. So which way is it and how do you know your belief is the correct one?

5. According to the text there are 29 cities listed in Joshua 15:21-32. One need only count them to see that biblical math is not to be trusted. The total is 36.

6. Surely you don’t believe Ecclesiastes 1:9 RSV (“What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun”)? How many cities had an atomic bomb dropped on them prior to 1945, and how many people walked on the moon before 1969?

7. If the Bible is our moral guide, then how can it make pornographic statements such as: “...they may eat their own dung and drink their own piss with you” (2 Kings 18:27)? Also consult Numbers 31 where a whole tribe of people, including the elderly and children are slaughtered. The only survivors were the virginal women, who were later raped by the “just and perfect” Moses and his men. Is that what you want your children reading on Sunday?

8. If God created everything, (Colossians 1:16, Ephesians 3:9, Revelation 4:11 & John 1:3), then he did create the world’s evil (Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38). Thus, he is responsible. Any being who could create situations such as rape, death, malnutrition, disease, molestation and murder is certainly not fit for worship.

9. For justice to exist, punishment must fit the crime. No matter how many bad deeds one commits in this world, there is a limit. Yet, hell’s punishment is infinitely greater. It’s eternal. Shouldn’t a sinner suffer until remorse is felt and the crime is atoned for? What “justice” is there in infinite damnation?

10. Jesus said, “whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Matthew 5:22). Yet, he himself did so repeatedly, as Matthew 27:19, Luke 11:40 & 12:20 show. Shouldn’t he be in danger of hell too? Jesus also told us to “Love your enemies; bless them that curse you, “but ignored his own advice by repeatedly denouncing his opposition. Matthew 12:34 (“0 generation of vipers”), and Matthew 23 :27 (“... hypocrites... ye are like unto whited sepulchres. . . “) are excellent examples of hypocrisy. If Jesus himself is a sinner by his own admission then surely he can not be the “perfect lamb of god”.

11. Except those of biased Christian writers, there isn’t one writing outside the Bible in all of ancient history that clearly refers to Jesus of Nazareth. The decision to dedicate my life to a deity requires at least one shred of conclusive evidence. Your lord knows non believers exist as a result of this, yet he makes no attempt to supply proof. How can the bible claim god wants all in heaven if he doesn’t make efforts to ensure that we all believe in him?

12. Paul says Christianity lives or dies on the Resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:14-17). Yet Jesus made many promises concerning his return during the lifetime of his then followers. (Matthew 16:28: “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom”. Matthew 23:36, 24:34, Mark.9:1, 13:30, Luke 9:27, 21:32 & John 21:22) None of these prophecies have come true. Does this not make Jesus a false prophet? If so wouldn’t that make Christianity invalid?

13. I find the idea that a man had to die for my sons revolting. If God was truly omnipotent he could have simply forgiven us. What kind of deity, would execute one child in order to forgive it’s others? Modern society would call an individual like this sadistic, insane and cruel. Surely, you would not worship a child killer, why do you expect me to? Would you find a judge worthy of the title who would allow my child to be executed in lieu of my sins?

14. John 14:12 states a follower in Jesus can perform any of his works and do it even greater. If you continue to insist I believe in Jesus, it is only fair I may ask of you to show just how strong your faith is. After all, you would be my “mentor” in Christ. I’m not a believer as of yet, but surely you are. Would you mind perhaps resurrecting a dead relative or walking on water?

15. Okay, obviously you didn’t do number 14 and backed out with the “this is metaphorical” excuse. Surely you can try Mark 16:17-1 8 which says believers can drink “any deadly thing” and “it shall not hurt” them. But I don’t think you would be naive enough to drink any arsenic offered. Perhaps I’m wrong and you would be willing to test the Book’s veracity-”lay it on the line” so to speak?

16. All right, so now you have backed out of two of my questions. I’m starting to think you don’t really care about my salvation as much as you claim. Well, unlike your Jehovah, I shall be kind and offer a third chance at redemption. Consider Jesus’ teaching in Luke 6:30 “Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.” Perhaps, if you emptied your wallet and “give of thee” I may seriously ponder accepting Jesus as my savior. A far greater number of Biblical discrepancies can be found on the web at the following addresses:

http://web2.airmail.net/capella/aguide/main.htm

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

http://www.cygnus-study.com



with thanks to the evilbible
 
The preacher ... you have made up your mind that there is no God. Thanks for explaining why.

peace

c20
 
the preacher said:
Dear Believer:

I do not accept the Bible as God’s word because it contains thousand of errancies and contradictions that can not be solved, only rationalized. I refuse to accept Jesus as my personal savior, for his behavior and teachings often expose one who should be escaped and not worshipped. I ask that you read this pamphlet in light of the bible’s teachings; Christians should be “open to reason” (James 3:17 RSV), that we should “reason together” (Isaiah 1:18) and “he who hates correction will die” (Proverbs 15:10) to understand my perspective that the bible has MANY shortcomings.

First of all...I can't believe I'm replying to this. Second of all, you liar, contradictions and errancies are not the reason that you do not accept the Bible as God's word. You don't accept it because you don't understand it, because you don't know God, because you don't want to. You could have searched the Bible for just as many truths but you chose not to. Your mind made up ahead of time as to what you want to believe, you seek support for it, and ignore the rest...profound and clever as that may be...you believe what you want to believe. Third, why are you quoting a book that you don't believe to be true to attempt to persuade me? And fourth, when it says "he who hates correction", it was talking about YOU silly, not God...lol.


1. According to your Bible I am to believe that human kind is sinful for Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge. Why are we being punished for the original sin? After all, they ate the forbidden fruit, we didn’t. Reason would lead one to say it’s their problem, not ours. Even the bible contradicts itself by claiming in Deuteronomy 24:16, “children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers.”

Eating the fruit was not THE sin that all of mankind has since been paying for. Eating the fruit caused a genetic change to occur in the flesh of man that made the flesh sinful. Being a sinner is not an "act" but a "state of being". Everyone is born a sinner and dies a sinner. And no one is being punished for sin. It's law, like gravity...if you jump off of a 50 story building, you're gonna get hurt. If you light yourself on fire, you're gonna burn. And the wages of sin is death. Pride, lust, greed, sloth, gluttony, envy, and wrath all have negative consequences...it's law....get over it.


2. We are told that the Bible has no scientific errors and is utterly perfect/protected, yet it says the bat is a bird (Leviticus 11:13 & 19), hares chew the cud (Leviticus 11:5-6), and some fowl (Leviticus 11:20-21) and insects (Leviticus 11:22-23) have four legs.

Who tells you that the Bible has no scientific errors? The Bible has an important purpose, as interpreted personally by the Holy Spirit...not a scientist, and certainly not by you, as is evident by this post, and who said it's purpose was to be a science textbook? Science is the how, the Word of God is the why. You are not at all concerned with the context of the scripture that you reference are you? Are you saying that you didn't get the point of the scripture...that it was confusing to you? It seems pretty straight forward to me. A bat flies, a rabbit eats grass, and you can eat a grasshopper or a locust if you wish. There, that was really complicated.



3. Heaven is supposed to be a perfect place. It is of course, the place you strive for and name “salvation”. Yet, it experienced a war (Revelation 12:7). How can there be a war in a perfect place and if it happened before why couldn’t it happen again? Why would I want to go to a place in which war can occur? That’s exactly what I’m trying to escape, aren’t you?

The Bible describes several different "heavens"...there is a first second and third or however many. It is the place where God lives, but it is also our earths atmosphere, and there is outer space. You're not going to get hurt in heaven rest assured. I'm sure that all of God's precious souls were kept from harm when the war occurred. Oh that's right, you don't want to go to heaven anyway, so why are you worried? Worried about getting hurt in heaven...lol...that's a good one.


4. We are told salvation is obtained by faith alone (John 3:18 & 36) and then the Bible claims that it is repentance that shall save us (2 Peter 3:9) yet Jesus told a man to follow the Commandments-Matthew 19:16-1 8 (saving by works)-if he wanted eternal life. So which way is it and how do you know your belief is the correct one?

It's all of the above, as the first lends itself to the second and third. If you have faith, you will repent, and you will seek to follow the commandments. For you would not repent to God without faith in the first place, and your works are not what saves you. What saves you is giving up the life of your flesh, for you give up your life to save it...which if you actually would have READ the scripture that you are citing, you would find that this is the point that Jesus is making to His disciples and to this man. When you have faith, and you follow Christ, and you seek eternal life in Him, you give up the things of the flesh and the things of this world, and you give up your own will to His.


5. According to the text there are 29 cities listed in Joshua 15:21-32. One need only count them to see that biblical math is not to be trusted. The total is 36.

As the scripture also states, the remaining 7 are the 29 towns surrounding villages...suburbs if you will of the 29 cities. You know, nevermind the fact that the Bible itself states that it is to be interpreted to the reader by the Holy Spirit Himself...and nevermind the fact that the Bible also states that to enter the Kingdom you must be born again, which involves having a personal relationship with God Himself, the very author of the Word...you could consider just actually READING it. Just a thought.


6. Surely you don’t believe Ecclesiastes 1:9 RSV (“What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun”)? How many cities had an atomic bomb dropped on them prior to 1945, and how many people walked on the moon before 1969?

How do you know? You haven't been around as long as God has. And of course you miss out on the entire point of the scripture...and that is that the things of this earth come and go, are here and then gone...ashes to ashes and dust to dust. The things of this earth are finite, but our spirits are eternal. So what is of the flesh is not important, but what is of the spirit. The Bible also says that nothing happens here that is not born of the spirit...so for something to manifest itself on earth, it must happen in the spiritual realm first.



7. If the Bible is our moral guide, then how can it make pornographic statements such as: “...they may eat their own dung and drink their own piss with you” (2 Kings 18:27)? Also consult Numbers 31 where a whole tribe of people, including the elderly and children are slaughtered. The only survivors were the virginal women, who were later raped by the “just and perfect” Moses and his men. Is that what you want your children reading on Sunday?

It can make statements like that in context that's how...what a concept...ever heard of it? Um...probably would depend on how old they were, and why would it have to be on a Sunday?


8. If God created everything, (Colossians 1:16, Ephesians 3:9, Revelation 4:11 & John 1:3), then he did create the world’s evil (Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38). Thus, he is responsible. Any being who could create situations such as rape, death, malnutrition, disease, molestation and murder is certainly not fit for worship.

Yes again, the wages of sin is death, which is why He allows us to live in it, and experience it, so that we have knowledge of it, and choose something different...which would be an eternal life without it. Not much of a thinker huh? Let me explain...you have law...you have the freewill to transgress or break the law...you have negative consequences for doing so. I know, rocket science....glad I could help you sort it all out.

9. For justice to exist, punishment must fit the crime. No matter how many bad deeds one commits in this world, there is a limit. Yet, hell’s punishment is infinitely greater. It’s eternal. Shouldn’t a sinner suffer until remorse is felt and the crime is atoned for? What “justice” is there in infinite damnation?

Hell is not a punishment, but a state of existence. One is not "sent" there because of sin or works, but chooses to go there because, just as yourself, they do not wish to exist in God's Kingdom and in accordance to His law and His will.


10. Jesus said, “whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Matthew 5:22). Yet, he himself did so repeatedly, as Matthew 27:19, Luke 11:40 & 12:20 show. Shouldn’t he be in danger of hell too? Jesus also told us to “Love your enemies; bless them that curse you, “but ignored his own advice by repeatedly denouncing his opposition. Matthew 12:34 (“0 generation of vipers”), and Matthew 23 :27 (“... hypocrites... ye are like unto whited sepulchres. . . “) are excellent examples of hypocrisy. If Jesus himself is a sinner by his own admission then surely he can not be the “perfect lamb of god”.

Actually, because He is the perfect Lamb of God...God Himself come to earth in the flesh, He is the ONLY One who is fit to judge a human, for He sees all and knows all. Jesus was without sin, and told the truth to anyone who sought it from Him. And just because He told them the truth, and the truth may not have been pretty all the time, that does not mean that He did not love them. He speaks the truth in love...love does not lie.



11. Except those of biased Christian writers, there isn’t one writing outside the Bible in all of ancient history that clearly refers to Jesus of Nazareth. The decision to dedicate my life to a deity requires at least one shred of conclusive evidence. Your lord knows non believers exist as a result of this, yet he makes no attempt to supply proof. How can the bible claim god wants all in heaven if he doesn’t make efforts to ensure that we all believe in him?

If you want to know Him...if you want Him to provide you with proof personally...all you have to do is sincerely want it, and He will...it's that simple. You do not get proof from a book, but from Him. You don't want to know Him remember? Um, that's why you don't. Funny, you're so clear about how much you despise Him and do not seek to know Him or have anything to do with Him, and then you turn around in the same breath and blame Him that you do not know Him. Are you nuts?


12. Paul says Christianity lives or dies on the Resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:14-17). Yet Jesus made many promises concerning his return during the lifetime of his then followers. (Matthew 16:28: “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom”. Matthew 23:36, 24:34, Mark.9:1, 13:30, Luke 9:27, 21:32 & John 21:22) None of these prophecies have come true. Does this not make Jesus a false prophet? If so wouldn’t that make Christianity invalid?

What about reincarnation? I happen to know that the apostle John is alive and well in a body of flesh on this earth as we speak. Is John's death even recorded historically? Enoch was taken straight up into heaven...he didn't die. There is also a first death, and a second death.



13. I find the idea that a man had to die for my sons revolting. If God was truly omnipotent he could have simply forgiven us. What kind of deity, would execute one child in order to forgive it’s others? Modern society would call an individual like this sadistic, insane and cruel. Surely, you would not worship a child killer, why do you expect me to? Would you find a judge worthy of the title who would allow my child to be executed in lieu of my sins?

Uh, hello....Jesus WAS God. Jesus was God Himself come to earth in the body of a man. Don't you know even the slightest bit about even the basic tenets of the faith? Eee gads, get a clue. And for as much bitching and moaning and blaming as you have done above about being subject to and accountable for sin yourself, you wouldn't think that God making Himself the sacrifice that atoned for our sin would be so revolting to you. Logically, it would seem that you would choose to feel just the opposite. But it is clear that logic is not what you're actually trying to achieve here, so....yea.

14. John 14:12 states a follower in Jesus can perform any of his works and do it even greater. If you continue to insist I believe in Jesus, it is only fair I may ask of you to show just how strong your faith is. After all, you would be my “mentor” in Christ. I’m not a believer as of yet, but surely you are. Would you mind perhaps resurrecting a dead relative or walking on water?

Man is able to convey these works by the power of the Holy Spirit which lives inside of him as he is born again is Christ, and according only to the will of God, and not according to your whimsy. But just so you know, God recently used me as a vessel of the Holy Spirit to resurrect a man who was spiritually dead from taking the mark of the beast. So there ya go. :p

15. Okay, obviously you didn’t do number 14 and backed out with the “this is metaphorical” excuse. Surely you can try Mark 16:17-1 8 which says believers can drink “any deadly thing” and “it shall not hurt” them. But I don’t think you would be naive enough to drink any arsenic offered. Perhaps I’m wrong and you would be willing to test the Book’s veracity-”lay it on the line” so to speak?

No, it's definitely not metaphorical. The Bible also says not to test God. You would seriously have me drink poison? And you are calling God sadistic? Nothing is impossible with God...He is our protector and provider...He is a healer and has power that is inconceivable to man, and that power can be manifest through us via the Holy Spirit as well. That doesn't mean that He wishes us to go around trying to kill ourselves just to see Him rescue us for our own follie. Again, if you had actually read the scripture, you would find that it in no way suggests that you attempt suicide, or test Him...but that He offers the knowledge of His power and of His protection to those who depend upon it in times of need.


16. All right, so now you have backed out of two of my questions. I’m starting to think you don’t really care about my salvation as much as you claim. Well, unlike your Jehovah, I shall be kind and offer a third chance at redemption. Consider Jesus’ teaching in Luke 6:30 “Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.” Perhaps, if you emptied your wallet and “give of thee” I may seriously ponder accepting Jesus as my savior.

Speak for yourself...for it is you who clearly doesn't care about your salvation, not I. And I have given freely of myself and of my possessions and money to those who are in need and ask of me and will continue to do so. So who do you think you are kidding? You know as well as I and everyone else reading this that I could give you everything that I have, and you would still not seriously ponder accepting Jesus as your saviour. Though I suppose that you may lie about it, and take everything that I have anyway huh?

If I were you preacher, I wouldn't worry a bit about having to deal with the "mean and evil" God, and His "evil" word...as you very apparently have no knowledge of either, and will remain that way for as long as your own freewill dictates.

Have a nice day.

Love,

Lori
 
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Do you really think God would write a book that confuses people no end?
Do you honestly expect me to believe that God is the author of this book?
Do you think that you give God enough credit when it comes to communication skills?
How can you possibly place God as author of a book that makes sense only half the time?

Don't you think that if God did write a book it would be as clear in it's purpose and content with out possible claim to be contradicting?

Do you think God would place himself in a position of compromise by claiming authorship of this vexation called the Bible?

If you do then he ain't as smart as my God...... :)
 
Quantum Quack said:
Do you really think God would write a book that confuses people no end?

Makes sense to me and many thousands of others.

Quantum Quack said:
Do you honestly expect me to believe that God is the author of this book?

Yes

Quantum Quack said:
Do you think that you give God enough credit when it comes to communication skills?

Yes

Quantum Quack said:
How can you possibly place God as author of a book that makes sense only half the time?

Again I say, it makes sense to me and many thousands of others of believers.


Quantum Quack said:
Don't you think that if God did write a book it would be as clear in it's purpose and content with out possible claim to be contradicting?

It is clear in it's purpose. Read it with the heart of a child and the understanding of a man and open your heart to allow Him in.

Quantum Quack said:
Do you think God would place himself in a position of compromise by claiming authorship of this vexation called the Bible?

Jesus said that it pointed to Him. I can confirm that it indeed does. I know this through personal experience.

Quantum Quack said:
If you do then he ain't as smart as my God...... :)

Claiming to be greater than God was Satan's downfall. Who is your God?

peace

c20
 
It is clear in it's purpose. Read it with the heart of a child and the understanding of a man and open your heart to allow Him in.


uhmmm...my God doesn't need letting in, as he was and is already there.

If you think he needs letting in then you are mistaken. Maybe the word should be "acknowledgement"
Claiming to be greater than God was Satan's downfall. Who is your God?
My God is a God that needs to make no claim.
 
Quantum Quack said:
uhmmm...my God doesn't need letting in, as he was and is already there.

If you think he needs letting in then you are mistaken. Maybe the word should be "acknowledgement"

Fair enough, acknowledgement is a good word for it.

peace

c20
 
does God need to be described by a book that is over 2000 years old....?
Don't you think he has the ability to change his mind?
Is God beholded to a book or is the book beholded to God?

If you want to know about God you wont find it in a book......
 
Quantum Quack said:
does God need to be described by a book that is over 2000 years old....?
Don't you think he has the ability to change his mind?
Is God beholded to a book or is the book beholded to God?

If you want to know about God you wont find it in a book......

I have to disagree here. Why wouldn't God use His instruments i.e us, to pen His thoughts and ways and wisdoms? I agree however that the Holy Spirit is the greatest Teacher about the Christ and it is the Holy Spirit that prepares our minds to receive the seeds, like a farmer tilling the soil. The Holy Spirit of course lives in the temple God has made, i.e. we that acknowledge Him. I say He is love that you might not be deceived.

peace

c20
 
"and yet it is the spoken and writen word of man that is the greatest of deceivers"

To me God speaks no human language, we do. Our freewill allows us to express how we want to and that includes lies and deception. However our feelings or our truth are harder to fabricate.
The bible is mans 'attempt' at describing Gods will. Some times it gets it right but most of the time it get's it wrong.

How often has man mislead himself into believing he was working for God only to find he is working for Satan?

The great deciever uses words and language as a tool, were as God uses the heart.
If you wish to find Gods word look in your heart and not at words written by men in the belief that they are Gods words. For God needs not the use of words.
 
Quantum Quack said:
"and yet it is the spoken and writen word of man that is the greatest of deceivers"

To me God speaks no human language, we do. Our freewill allows us to express how we want to and that includes lies and deception. However our feelings or our truth are harder to fabricate.
The bible is mans 'attempt' at describing Gods will. Some times it gets it right but most of the time it get's it wrong.

How often has man mislead himself into believing he was working for God only to find he is working for Satan?

The great deciever uses words and language as a tool, were as God uses the heart.
If you wish to find Gods word look in your heart and not at words written by men in the belief that they are Gods words. For God needs not the use of words.

The Word of God dwells in the hearts of the humble and contrite. The prophets and saints and authors of the Sacred Holy Scriptures were just such men who sought the will of God. God used these scribes to make His will known to us. I believe that the Holy Book authorised by the Vatican in Rome is the Word of God and I believe Jesus Christ to be the Word of God made flesh. To say that God does not have need of words is to deny the language of love which we all need to hear for justification and affirmation. God uses words to tell us what He thinks of us. Jesus is the embodiment of the Word of God according to my belief.
Thank you for sharing your beliefs also.

peace

c20
 
c20H25N3o, I do respect your postion on the scriptures and your beliefs.
You say
I believe Jesus Christ to be the Word of God made flesh.
and I would say he was or is God's love made flesh.

You say
To say that God does not have need of words is to deny the language of love which we all need to hear for justification and affirmation.
And I say that if you need to here of Gods love then you are having difficulty feeling Gods love.

I am not argueing that the word as you see it is invalid. I am suggesting that they are only a guide and should be treated as such.

The language of love is in deeds of love and not words.

The language of love is not limited to words.

The language of love is best expressed with out the use of words.

But alas some times words are all we have to help us communicate but let us not over value their use.

The Christ showed the world through his deeds his love as Gods love. He used word to try and express his love and in doing so ended up on a cross.
If Jesus had said nothing at all he may have avoided his crucifiction. In deed did he not in the end realise the folley of uttering a defence. Instead of letting his actions do all the speaking.

It is in the God inpired actions of man and not in his words that shows Gods love and you know when those actions are God inpired or when they are not.

For me it is of no importance whether the bible is contradictory or paradoxical or a flimsy of someones grand imagination. It is a historical reflection of humanities struggle with it's own nature. A book of both profound wisdom and enourmous folley. It is humanities attempt to see itself for all that it is. It is a book about the evolution of mans love and loving.

A treatise of mans desire to find a place in the universe of purpose and substance.
But it is written by man and not by God. For God needs not for words, only man does.
If placed in it's proper context, the bible offers guidence and sustenance and offers a way to help it's believers find Gods love and the truth about themselves. To idolise the bible is to relegate God to just mere words. And as far as I am concerned if you can stand free of your devotion towards the bible and just put it aside for a moment and just ask yourself: "What is my relationship with God ?" and not with the bible you will see my point.

peace to you too

QQ
 
My relationship with God is through the Holy Spirit first and foremost. I agree that words are nothing without actions but neither is the death of Christ anything without the ressurection and it is this that I speak of because it produces hope in those that believe.
Jesus said the only debt we have to Him is to love one another. I do not wish to make it any more complicated than that but it is for nothing if we do not believe that the one who tells us to love one another also died for our sins and was raised to glory that we may also be raised to glory with him on that day.

peace

c20
 
Quantum Quack said:
The language of love is in deeds of love and not words.

The language of love is not limited to words.

The language of love is best expressed with out the use of words.

But alas some times words are all we have to help us communicate but let us not over value their use.

peace to you too

QQ

this is how all atheist and humanist feel.
love is precious commodity, which is the spice of life, if we could believe in this, other then some non-existent thing this would be a better world.
because religion breeds hatred.
 
mustafhakofi said:
this is how all atheist and humanist feel.
love is precious commodity, which is the spice of life, if we could believe in this, other then some non-existent thing this would be a better world.
because religion breeds hatred.

I have no problems with people loving eachother. this is what I wish of course. But I ask you to value its worth if you just die. What would Jesus' message have meant (i.e love one another) if He had just died and that was it? Am I called delusional because I believe in the ressurection that our love may continue in a place devoid of those who chose not to love others?
 
The Bible was not meant to be taken in and of itself...standing alone...as a theology textbook...as so many seek to take it as. It states quite clearly in the Bible that it is to be interpreted to the person reading it by the Holy Spirit of God. Think of it to be like a poem or a song. Have you ever read a poem or listened to a song and not understood what the author or lyricist meant by it? Or maybe you thought you knew what they meant, but later see the author or lyricist interviewed about it's meaning and find out that you were totally wrong? The Bible is like that. Also like a poem, or form of artwork, it is meant for you individually. Believe me when I say that the Bible reveals truth that is specific to the individual reading it, but only shown through the interpretation of the Holy Spirit. The reason that the Holy Spirit is required to be involved is because one, He is the AUTHOR. And two, because the spiritual rebirth that comes by the Holy Spirit is exactly what the Bible was written to introduce. So if you read the Bible, and do not end up reborn spiritually, then it would have been worthless to you anyway. So then that is the point. In requiring the interpretation of the Holy Spirit to the Bible, God is perpetuating the spiritual rebirth that the Bible describes and encourages.

I myself have read the Bible in the past, and found that it may as well have been written in the original Greek for as much as I understood of it or got out of it. And yet now, since being reborn, and with the interpretation of the Holy Spirit, I have read it and received so much understanding and personal meaning, it has seemed as if I was reading the story of my own life. The difference that spiritual rebirth makes, and the difference that the Holy Spirit makes is paramount...it is like the difference between night and day.

Love,

Lori
 
lori
how do you think an atheists, comes to the conclusions they do, having studied the bible and religion.
I can dare to say that, atheist know an awful lot more, about the bible and religion, then most theists/xians.
so you cant say they dont understand it, it's just that, they understand it much to well.

c20
you must love , and love in the here and now, and love with all your being,( a whole life times worth) there is no afterlife.
when you realise that, you will love more.
 
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