If someone is rich and happy, this automatically means God is with him?

W

water

the sea
Registered Senior Member
If someone is rich and happy, this automatically means God is with him?

And if someone is poor and miserable, this automatically means God is not with him?


Someone may be rich and happy, but does not believe in God, maybe even curses God.
If he is rich and happy, does this autmatically mean that God is with him, *regardless* of this person's faith in God?


And someone else may be poor and miserable, but believes in God, prays and praises God.
If he is poor and miserable, does this automatically mean that God is not with him, *regardless* of this person's faith in God?
 
From my atheist p.o.v. - I can answer "no" to all your questions.

From a theist p.o.v. - it really depends upon what you believe your God(s) is capable of doing, or willing to do, to interact with everyday life. Some may say that the test is what we do with what God has given us, not what those things necessarily are. For example, the poor man who gives his last coins to help the poor compared to the billionaire who only gives a tiny fraction.

All a matter of your belief, I guess.


But I still stick with the "No" answers :D
 
THERE is a striking correlation between Western orthodox religious views on suffering and Easter religious vieas ala 'Karmic doctrine' on suffering

I.e., the formr believed that -for example women giving birth and suffering is 'God's' purpose, and that illness too is God's purpose. that belief was one of the main reasons for their persecuation of the Wise Women, who aided and healed suffering

In the East is the doctrine of karma which believes that any suffering is meant to be by universal law. Ghandi -a Hindu believed this.

from my research i can see where these two belefs stem from. In th West it is Orphism, which was influenced by Eastern thought

do i believe suffering is God's plan? NO......i am aware tha suffering can bring isight. but the deeper meaning of suffering is that it part of a continuum with pleasure, joy. How could one KNOW pain less one knew pleasure and vice versa?
 
duendy said:
How could one KNOW pain less one knew pleasure and vice versa?
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"When pain is all you know, the absence of it is pleasure." - anonymous - on signing his divorce papers. :D
 
Sarkus said:
"When pain is all you know, the absence of it is pleasure." - anonymous - on signing his divorce papers. :D
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Lol.....sure, but hs removing of THAt pain which gets him pleasure will soon of course make room for a different kind of pain, then pleasure etc...as we all too well know

billionairs get seriously pissed off too

poor things hehe
 
water said:
If someone is rich and happy, this automatically means God is with him?

And if someone is poor and miserable, this automatically means God is not with him?


Someone may be rich and happy, but does not believe in God, maybe even curses God.
If he is rich and happy, does this autmatically mean that God is with him, *regardless* of this person's faith in God?


And someone else may be poor and miserable, but believes in God, prays and praises God.
If he is poor and miserable, does this automatically mean that God is not with him, *regardless* of this person's faith in God?
Click to expand...

no,
your life is what YOU make it regardless what you believe.

god dont exists for the simple reason that prayer dont work ;)

from the bible
..."and whatever one shall ask in prayer one shall receive"...

how many poor people out there have been praying for winning a million $$ in a lotery,whatcha think?
or how about those poor starving people in Africa,Im sure they pray pretty fng hard for some rain....so where is God?
 
God does not measure success by wealth, or failure by poverty.
Proverbs 23:4 Do not wear yourself out to get rich; have the wisdom to show restraint. 28:6 Better a poor man whose walk is blameless than a rich man whose ways are perverse.

Jer. 9:23 This is what the LORD says:
Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches, but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight, declares the LORD.​
 
People who measure happiness by money, will be happy with money and unhappy without it. God has nothing to do with that kind of happiness. It comes with money and passes with it again.

Someone who measures their life by such a standard of success will find it next to impossible to follow God, since one cannot dedicate one's life to two masters.
 
Jenyar said:
God does not measure success by wealth, or failure by poverty.
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No no no no.


See my original questions. We often get to see pictures of starving children, with the comment "Why does God allow this?" or "Can you see God in this?"
It can likely be that those making such comments suppose that being miserable means being away from God. That being poor and miserable automatically means that God is not with you. For if God would be with you, then you'd be rich and happy, even regardless of your beliefs.

Now, I would like you to produce an argument to show that if you are poor and miserable does not necessarily mean that God is not with you.
 
water said:
Now, I would like you to produce an argument to show that if you are poor and miserable does not necessarily mean that God is not with you.
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What argument can there be, other than that God is with someone especially if they are poor and miserable. Because of the lack of compassion in the world, the selfishness of dictators and the cruelties of war, people may never even realize God is there with them. They will die thinking that God is money, and belongs to rich people.
Luke 6:20-21
Looking at his disciples, he said:Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.

24 But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort.​
 
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Jenyar: Because of the lack of compassion in the world, the selfishness of dictators and the cruelties of war, people may never even realize God is there with them.
*************
M*W: Where is your God when the country of South Afrika has the highest crime rate in the world?
 
M*W: Where is your God when the country of South Afrika has the highest crime rate in the world?
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MedicineWoman, if there is a God or there is no God, some country in the world will still have the highest crime rate, no?

water said:
If someone is rich and happy, this automatically means God is with him?

And if someone is poor and miserable, this automatically means God is not with him?
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The problem is that you say you want an argument that basically contradicts that statement, but the primary argument has to be, "How do you justify the premise of your question?"

You have not defined "rich" in your condition "rich and happy" - do you mean material wealth or uh, spiritual "wealth"? If the former, I'm not sure I've ever heard of any religion that specifically promises you material, earthly benefits through belief. If the latter, then surely "happy" covers it?
 
Silas said:
The problem is that you say you want an argument that basically contradicts that statement, but the primary argument has to be, "How do you justify the premise of your question?"

You have not defined "rich" in your condition "rich and happy" - do you mean material wealth or uh, spiritual "wealth"? If the former, I'm not sure I've ever heard of any religion that specifically promises you material, earthly benefits through belief. If the latter, then surely "happy" covers it?
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I'm glad you bring this up; I left the opening post somewhat vague on purpose.
Like I said earlier,

"We often get to see pictures of starving children, with the comment "Why does God allow this?" or "Can you see God in this?"
It can likely be that those making such comments suppose that being miserable means being away from God. That being poor and miserable automatically means that God is not with you. For if God would be with you, then you'd be rich and happy, even regardless of your beliefs."

I am trying to find out what the basis for commenting a picture of a starving child with "Why does God allow this?", "Can you see God in this?" is.

Some claim that the proof that there is no God, and if there is one, he is not benevolent and loving -- is that there is misery in the world. They say a loving God would not allow those people to starve, tsunamis to happen etc.

Then I think, if they say God is not with those people, or there is no God, or God is not benevolent, then what does this logic imply for the rich and happy?
That the rich and happy are so due to their own doing -- but the poor and miserable are ... poor and miserable why? Is it not their own doing as well that they are poor and miserable?
Or is it that God (or some god) is with the rich and happy, but has abandoned the poor and miserable?
 
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