EarthlyVagabond
Registered Member
This is a simple question: What would happen if Satan told God that he was sorry? Would God let him back into Heaven or what?
If Satan Said I'm Sorry
- Thread starter EarthlyVagabond
- Start date
My personal explanation of Satan's position is this:
In order to ensure people could act on their free will, God had to provide options to choose from. God Himself stands for the good, and for the evil, God appointed Lucifer. (I do not believe in the whole rebellion story.)
Lucifer, being an angel, had no choice but to obey God's will, when God cast him into hell. He opposed going to hell because there is no thing better than being in God's presence. But, he obeyed, and took on that dirty job of enticing people to evil. Satan wants nothing more than that his work would be over, and that he could be reunited with God again. Satan is angry when he is doing his job (because he doesn't really want to do it), this is why evil has the qualificator of being hateful and miserable (crying and gnashing of teeth).
The whole story is presented as an act of rebellion because most people have a hard time accepting that Satan is actually doing work appointed by God.
This is not an "offical Christian explanation", but I deem it very consistent.
In order to ensure people could act on their free will, God had to provide options to choose from. God Himself stands for the good, and for the evil, God appointed Lucifer. (I do not believe in the whole rebellion story.)
Lucifer, being an angel, had no choice but to obey God's will, when God cast him into hell. He opposed going to hell because there is no thing better than being in God's presence. But, he obeyed, and took on that dirty job of enticing people to evil. Satan wants nothing more than that his work would be over, and that he could be reunited with God again. Satan is angry when he is doing his job (because he doesn't really want to do it), this is why evil has the qualificator of being hateful and miserable (crying and gnashing of teeth).
The whole story is presented as an act of rebellion because most people have a hard time accepting that Satan is actually doing work appointed by God.
This is not an "offical Christian explanation", but I deem it very consistent.
water,
God created some people to be more responsive to Satan than others. Hence the whole attempt at free will is nullified and God is still responsible for what He orchestrates. Besides, doesn't this tale of a God striving to dichotomize the world into good and evil seem absurd? In fact, it seems very much like what human beings would do..
The rebellion story was created in order to escape this quandary, making Satan responsible for evil instead of God.
God created some people to be more responsive to Satan than others. Hence the whole attempt at free will is nullified and God is still responsible for what He orchestrates. Besides, doesn't this tale of a God striving to dichotomize the world into good and evil seem absurd? In fact, it seems very much like what human beings would do..
The rebellion story was created in order to escape this quandary, making Satan responsible for evil instead of God.
SouthStar,
"God created some people to be more responsive to Satan than others."
What is unsupported here is the implication that God has predetermined people.
Probably the hardest part to understand about creation is that God made us, but made us free.
"Hence the whole attempt at free will is nullified and God is still responsible for what He orchestrates."
It is so, yes, if you equal "created" with "predetermined". I do not believe the two are equal.
"Besides, doesn't this tale of a God striving to dichotomize the world into good and evil seem absurd? In fact, it seems very much like what human beings would do.."
The dichotomization comes from there being options to choose from. When we choose, we usually say that one option is better than another, hence the dichotomy.
"The rebellion story was created in order to escape this quandary, making Satan responsible for evil instead of God."
This is how some understand it, yes. But I don't agree with that view.
The danger of what you are saying above is that of pantheism: not all entities in the universe are God's making, but God has rule over them all anyway. Hence, there can be no justice, and God is wicked. Do look up my thread on Mormonism being pantheism.
"God created some people to be more responsive to Satan than others."
What is unsupported here is the implication that God has predetermined people.
Probably the hardest part to understand about creation is that God made us, but made us free.
"Hence the whole attempt at free will is nullified and God is still responsible for what He orchestrates."
It is so, yes, if you equal "created" with "predetermined". I do not believe the two are equal.
"Besides, doesn't this tale of a God striving to dichotomize the world into good and evil seem absurd? In fact, it seems very much like what human beings would do.."
The dichotomization comes from there being options to choose from. When we choose, we usually say that one option is better than another, hence the dichotomy.
"The rebellion story was created in order to escape this quandary, making Satan responsible for evil instead of God."
This is how some understand it, yes. But I don't agree with that view.
The danger of what you are saying above is that of pantheism: not all entities in the universe are God's making, but God has rule over them all anyway. Hence, there can be no justice, and God is wicked. Do look up my thread on Mormonism being pantheism.
Nothing is God's or satan's, or anyone elses fault... they have no choice but to do what they do. Everything is just unconscious... natural... things.
There is no such thing as "fault"... except in the human mind. If we don't think... if we are what we are... then there is nothing.....
Since nothing is really no one's fault... WE HAVE TO CREATE THE FAULT...
since there is no reason for man to be unhappy... WE HAVE TO CREATE THE REASON...
There is no such thing as "fault"... except in the human mind. If we don't think... if we are what we are... then there is nothing.....
Since nothing is really no one's fault... WE HAVE TO CREATE THE FAULT...
since there is no reason for man to be unhappy... WE HAVE TO CREATE THE REASON...
Your explanation might be internally consistent, but that doesn't mean it corresponds with the (complex) reality. I think another lie Satan spreads is that he acts completely on God's behalf.water said:
It seems that Satan was originally an angel in God's service, an "appointed accuser" (Psalm 109:6) and maybe even the angel of death (Hebrews 2:14). In that sense he was created for destruction. But he started to act outside his appointed area of authority, apart from God's direction. Possibly, he gained power as people moved away from God - as death became more certain and he became a greater enemy to people who put their hope for life in God. He had no freedom in heaven, yet on earth he could come and go as he pleased (like we see in Job). But it seems he started to exceed his duties, advancing an earthly kingdom instead of God's heavenly one.
Zech. 3:1-3
Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?"
Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. The angel said to those who were standing before him, "Take off his filthy clothes." Then he said to Joshua, "See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put rich garments on you."
And then he tried to tempt even God, here on earth:Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?"
Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. The angel said to those who were standing before him, "Take off his filthy clothes." Then he said to Joshua, "See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put rich garments on you."
Matt. 4:9-11
"All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
And later Jesus says of him: "He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies" (John 8:44), and on another occasion "Get behind me, Satan! ... You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men" (Mark 8:33)."All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
But we hear that Satan was cast out from heaven in Jesus' time:
Luke 10:17-19
The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."
He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."
So Satan's power is limited now, he is bound on earth until Christ returns, but death is conquered and his time is short:The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."
He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."
Rev. 12:9;12;17
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. ...
Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short. ...
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
And he won't be "reunited with God" again, because as with sin and death, he was destined for destruction. The lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41), and that's where he will finally go when Christ returns:The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. ...
Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short. ...
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Rev. 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
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God's apparent tolerance towards satan's continued existence may indicate God's mercy towards his creation. But justice point of view it is the root cause of all sufferings of humans. So probably, satan is the 'prosecutor' proving how filthy these humans are, Jesus is the defence lawyer who hides the evidences against certain 'forgiven' humans under a special blanket that he only (as christian claim) is supposed posses. If satan quits the job, God might immediately appoint another 'prosecutor' for the fun of this 'amusing' game.
So you bloody humans, either don't go filthy or hire the best lawer around - Jesus. But remember, even if you don't go filthy, satan can just accuse you of being a human with orginal sin baggage and God would readily accept the charge prima facie. So the only way out is - Jesus.
What is the lawyer's fee? nothing. Everything was alreay paid. Jesus does this for free now.
/*end of ad
So you bloody humans, either don't go filthy or hire the best lawer around - Jesus. But remember, even if you don't go filthy, satan can just accuse you of being a human with orginal sin baggage and God would readily accept the charge prima facie. So the only way out is - Jesus.
What is the lawyer's fee? nothing. Everything was alreay paid. Jesus does this for free now.
/*end of ad
There's no proof that saten exists. Anyone that believes that it or god exists are just believers of a teaching that allows others to tell you what to believe without any facts to back up what they are lying to you about. Weak minded people are always swayed easily by others that convince them that they are telling them the truth without anything to back up what they say except a book.