I hate guns.

John99 said:
And the UK exceeds Japan by roughly the same amount per capita. explain that.
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We nuked them and put really strict controls in place? Are you really that uneducated, John? You are a frikking embarassment, really. STOP TYPING AND START READING JOHN.
 
Originally Posted by John99
And the UK exceeds Japan by roughly the same amount per capita. explain that.
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We nuked them and put really strict controls in place? Are you really that uneducated, John? You are a frikking embarassment, really. STOP TYPING AND START READING JOHN.
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And many other countries have roughly half the murders as UK.

I am simply trying to get across to you that there are other factors involved here. Cant go viewing things like this based on your own pet peeve.

Are you really that uneducated, John? You are a frikking embarassment,
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you spelled embarrassment wrong.:D
 
John99 said:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
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Yeah, saw that, gives different figures to Wikipedia and other sources. Also, Japan counts murders differently, for instance, wounding that leads to death is not considered murder, and murders are notoriously undercounted, as autopsies are not performed routinely as they are elsewhere.

So, got any more sources?

Also, Japanese culture is very, very different to Western society, so I'm not quit sure where this Japanese Goose chase is taking us. Simply, they have very strict gun control (more strict than the UK) and lower gun crime, so if anything, you are proving the point that gun control works.
 
phlogistician said:
Yeah, saw that, gives different figures to Wikipedia and other sources. Also, Japan counts murders differently, for instance, wounding that leads to death is not considered murder, and murders are notoriously undercounted, as autopsies are not performed routinely as they are elsewhere.

So, got any more sources?

Also, Japanese culture is very, very different to Western society, so I'm not quit sure where this Japanese Goose chase is taking us. Simply, they have very strict gun control (more strict than the UK) and lower gun crime, so if anything, you are proving the point that gun control works.
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Really low crime rate? and you just admit that Japan skews it rates because it counts it's murders differently, can the same be said for their other methods of counting crime?

Would seem so, if the do so for murder, (to look better), the most violent crime, why wouldn't they fudge the figures for lesser crimes to look better to, the Japanese are very conscious of Face to the rest of the world.
 
Buffalo Roam said:
And the numbers of dead would not change, just the method of making them so.

Along with my Gun collection I also have a decent collection of Swords, my favorite being my Katana, it is designed to cut through a man, from shoulder to hip in one cut, now if you don't have a gun, only you switch blade, and I have a Katana, who is in control?

If I want something from you, and you resist, and pull your switch blade, well I think you have a good picture in your mind what happens next.

Or even take my German Bastard Sword, 48 inches of steel, 16 inches of handle, against your 4 inch switch blade.....:roflmao:

Guns aren't the problem, people are, their intent is what is the problem, I sit daily among friend and costumer, at Restaurants, and Bars, I am armed with a gun, and nothing untoward happens, why because it isn't my intent to or inclination to criminal activity.

But the moment a cretan enters the scene, his intent changes everything, I may or may not engage him, depending entirely on his intent, that is what will determine my decision, I am not a law enforcement officer, and until he displays intent to commit grave bodily harm or murder, I just may sit peaceably by and let nature take it course, but I have that option ,available to me, to defend my self or another should the cretan decide to get violent and hurt or kill someone.

So again it isn't the gun, that is the problem it is the Person.
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You're being a little silly. What really keeps us in line is who we decide to let us keep us in line. If I was in a bar with a switchblade, and I wanted you dead, you would be dead before you knew what was happening. There's just no way you can be on guard all the time against everyone in an urban environment. It would require a lot of social restructuring before I pinged as a threat on your radar, before you thought I was going to open your throat up in the bathroom.

But the reason why I don't kill people in bars is consequences. Not from the people in the bar; they're all easy prey. From the huge institution set up to discourage most people from killing most people most of the time, and our acknowledgment that they are in charge. You haven't been robbed killed or raped, not because you have weapons, but because the people out there that do have enough power or wherewithal to take from you are held in check by the state. Monopoly of force and all that.
 
Buffalo Roam said:
Is it, every time I read about more restrictions on weapons, all I hear about is how horrible the murder rate is in the U.K.

That is alway the justification for stricter weapons control.
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BULLSHIT ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the UK, it was NEVER allowed to keep a gun for self defence (Gun owneship is allowed for sporting or hunting purposes only. Guns have to be kept locked in a cabinet, and ammunition locked in a separate compartment, and the number of people licensed to own firearms so msall as to be insignificant wrt crime figures!), so various newer restrictions have NO CORRELATION to crime figures, and have not encouraged criminals to commit more crime.

Please, show a grasp of the subject before posting, it does your case no good to bleat falsehoods!
 
Roman said:
You're being a little silly. What really keeps us in line is who we decide to let us keep us in line. If I was in a bar with a switchblade, and I wanted you dead, you would be dead before you knew what was happening. There's just no way you can be on guard all the time against everyone in an urban environment. It would require a lot of social restructuring before I pinged as a threat on your radar, before you thought I was going to open your throat up in the bathroom.

But the reason why I don't kill people in bars is consequences. Not from the people in the bar; they're all easy prey. From the huge institution set up to discourage most people from killing most people most of the time, and our acknowledgment that they are in charge. You haven't been robbed killed or raped, not because you have weapons, but because the people out there that do have enough power or wherewithal to take from you are held in check by the state. Monopoly of force and all that.
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My friend was murdered outside a bar with a switchblade while walking to his car. Four times to the heart. For nothing. He spent 4 years in the army and was a trained MMA fighter and 'if he wanted to' as you say, could have easily taken 'easy prey'. He didn't see it coming because he was an angel and loyal and an amazing human being who could walk away from a fight without the consequence of prison beating him over the head because he didn't WANT to kill ANYONE. Anyone heartless, cruel, and pathetic enough to murder someone over a disagreement in a bar deserves to rot in prison for 40+ years. Which is what his killer got. The consequences obviously did not prevent his killer from murder. His killer gave up his freedom, his wife, and two little children all over what he perceived as a moment of disrespect. In a sense, his killer took my friend's life and his own. The law obviously never crossed his mind.

I don't know if you are bragging about the fact that the only thing that keeps you from killing people is legal consequences or if you are just trying to make the point that people are not the problem.

I disagree. I think that is a contradiction. People ARE the problem. It's a persons choice to obey the law or not. The law is not a force that physically prevents murder. Knives don't stab on their own. Guns don't take aim and fire by themselves. The law doesn't drag a knife from someone's hand and stop killers. The threat of prison could make a person hesitate, but ultimately it doesn't stop them from reacting. The choice is what makes people the problem and not the weapons alone. People are stupid. They don't think. They don't care. They don't realize that by harming others they are only harming themselves and that realization never hits until they're cuffed, shackled, and behind bars and wearing orange jumpsuits until the day they die.
 
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