Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
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I hate guns.
- Thread starter laladopi
- Start date
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Training and accountability. I clearly stated that already. They have discipline wrt weapons, because they have been taught how to shoot. That is why their number of gun homicides is low despite the prevalence of firearms.
Now, contrast that to the USA where you can go buy a gun 2nd hand no questions asked, load it, and leave it laying around in a bedside cabinet for children to discover. Which system of gun ownership sounds like it's going to give rise to more fatalities?
Now stop using the Swiss fallacy as an argument. It doesn't work.
The weapons are available at any point of the day or night, they are in the hand of the Swiss citizens, not just Pistols, but Rifles, Sturmgewehre, and even heavier weapons.
There is nothing to stop a pissed of Switzer from taking his weapons and doing anything he want to do.
And occasional some Switzer does get the jaws and take's it out on his fellow Swiss.
The Swiss have all the foibles of humans, and problems, but the reason that their crime rates are so low is because of the fact that their population is armed, and a fairly homogeneous.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/09/27/switzerland.shooting/index.html
'Grudge' behind Swiss gun massacre
September 27, 2001 Posted: 2:48 PM EDT (1848 GMT)
ZUG, Switzerland (CNN) -- A gunman who killed 14 people at a Swiss regional parliament building had a grudge against local transport bosses, officials have revealed.
The Swiss attacker sprayed assault rifle fire around the parliament chamber and set off an explosive device during the incident on Thursday.
He seriously wounded another 10 people before turning the gun on himself in Switzerland's worst-ever shooting spree.
Three members of the seven-member state government were killed and two were seriously injured, including state President Hanspeter Uster, said government member Robert Bisig. He survived by diving behind a desk.
The Swiss have all the foibles of humans, and problems, but the reason that their crime rates are so low is because of the fact that their population is armed, and a fairly homogeneous.
Fairly homogeneous? You've been to Switzerland, but you come up with that crap? How many different languages are spoken in Switzerland? Homogeneous my arse!
Also, don't the differences between the armed Swiss population, and the armed US population just jump up and grab you by the throat? If your assertion were true, that prevalence of firearms keeps the Swiss law abiding, then why doesn't the prevalence of firearms work the same way in the USA?
Hmmmm, could it be as I have been saying all along, that the National Service the Swiss undertake gives them the training they need to respect and use firearms safely, and sensibly, and this is augmented by full accountability?
Also, you dodged my other point; that you are a coward. If, as you claim, the UK is so crime ridden, and I don't feel I need a gun, you are a total pussy for thinking you need one. Perhaps you need to get counselling, sounds like you are suffering from paranoia induced by post traumatic stress.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Fairly homogeneous? You've been to Switzerland, but you come up with that crap? How many different languages are spoken in Switzerland? Homogeneous my arse!
Also, don't the differences between the armed Swiss population, and the armed US population just jump up and grab you by the throat? If your assertion were true, that prevalence of firearms keeps the Swiss law abiding, then why doesn't the prevalence of firearms work the same way in the USA?
Hmmmm, could it be as I have been saying all along, that the National Service the Swiss undertake gives them the training they need to respect and use firearms safely, and sensibly, and this is augmented by full accountability?
Also, you dodged my other point; that you are a coward. If, as you claim, the UK is so crime ridden, and I don't feel I need a gun, you are a total pussy for thinking you need one. Perhaps you need to get counselling, sounds like you are suffering from paranoia induced by post traumatic stress.
There are 4 official languages, but as a whole if you ask anyone in Switzerland what is their nationality they will say Swiss.
Even with the mix of German, Italian, French and Austrian cultures the population is mainly, white, Christian, and anywhere I have ever been in Switzerland, the People are Swiss, and they will tell you so with pride, so that would seem to me to indicat a fairly homogenious population.
Also, you dodged my other point; that you are a coward. If, as you claim, the UK is so crime ridden, and I don't feel I need a gun, you are a total pussy for thinking you need one. Perhaps you need to get counselling, sounds like you are suffering from paranoia induced by post traumatic stress.
No I didn't dodge your point, I pointed out that the numbers you are using are skewed by government policy, and are spurious.
So anything your are trying to prove about England's vaunted low crime rate is invalid because the real numbers aren't known.
Question? do you have all of your vaccinations?
what about Liechtenstein? 1/3 of the population is foreign born yet crime is low. they also aren't that well armed.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
what about Liechtenstein? 1/3 of the population is foreign born yet crime is low. they also aren't that well armed.
A population of 35,322, what would you expect?
Drunk drivers and winter road conditions may be your only "realistic" concern.
That isn't even as big as the town I live in, 38,426 pop.
Liechtenstein is the fourth smallest country of Europe, after the Vatican City, Monaco, and San Marino. Its population is primarily Alemannic-speaking ethnic Germans, although its resident population is approximately one third foreign-born, primarily German speakers from the Federal Republic of Germany, Austria
Very homogenous in language, culture, and ethnicity.
No I didn't dodge your point, I pointed out that the numbers you are using are skewed by government policy, and are spurious.
The BCS isn't the sole source of data. And like I said, a person being a victim crime five times in one reporting period isn't very likely.
So anything your are trying to prove about England's vaunted low crime rate is invalid because the real numbers aren't known.
Here's where you are screwed. Either the UK has a low crime rate, so the argument that guns prevent crime is fallacious, or it's high, in which case the USA is a nation of cowards for needing guns. Take your pick.
Question? do you have all of your vaccinations?
I don't think I do. Last jab I had was Tetanus, about eight years ago, after I got bitten by a feral cat, and got an infected hand. I had the usual BCG jab when I was a kid, and later a jab for TB as a teacher of mine brought that back with him from a holiday in India. Where are you going with this?
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
The BCS isn't the sole source of data. And like I said, a person being a victim crime five times in one reporting period isn't very likely.
Here's where you are screwed. Either the UK has a low crime rate, so the argument that guns prevent crime is fallacious, or it's high, in which case the USA is a nation of cowards for needing guns. Take your pick.
I don't think I do. Last jab I had was Tetanus, about eight years ago, after I got bitten by a feral cat, and got an infected hand. I had the usual BCG jab when I was a kid, and later a jab for TB as a teacher of mine brought that back with him from a holiday in India. Where are you going with this?
But we don't know what the crime rate is, because the British Government skews the numbers and from the citation I have posted from British New's sources, the British Government has even admitted to it, so as to who is screwed, I think your the one who need the KY.
Why did you get that Tetanus, Small Pox, DPT, Measles, vaccination? there are Doctors to protect you from Illness aren't their, you chance of getting a serious disease is less than being a victim of crime, but yet you carry those vaccinations with you, so what is so different about carrying a gun to protect your self?
Why is it ok to protect your self from the small chance of catching a disease?, and not ok to protect your self from the small chance of violence by another?
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But we don't know what the crime rate is, because the British Government skews the numbers
"Since 1982, we’ve analysed the annual British Crime Survey (BCS) in conjunction with police recorded crime figures to get a more accurate picture of UK crime, and we publish all the figures in the annual report: Crime in England and Wales." (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/crime-statistics/?view=Standard)
The Police collect raw data, this and the BCS are used by the Home Office. I have clearly stated several times I go by Home Office figures. Now, let your pet rant die, because it's starting to get embarrassing.
Why did you get that Tetanus, Small Pox, DPT, Measles, vaccination? there are Doctors to protect you from Illness aren't their, you chance of getting a serious disease is less than being a victim of crime, but yet you carry those vaccinations with you, so what is so different about carrying a gun to protect your self?
You aren't that bright are you? I haven't kept up with my shots. I got the BCG when I was a baby, so it wasn't my choice. The TB jab was because I was in regular contact with a teacher who had the disease. The tetanus was because my hand had swollen up because the bite had conferred an infection, and my doctor thought tetanus was wise.
Also, your analogy falls flat on it's face. As I have pointed out to you several times, with your lax gun laws, legal gun ownership fuels illegal gun ownership because your guns are not secured on your homes, and hundred of thousands of them are stolen in domestic burglaries each year. Guns are your problem, not your solution.
Why is it ok to protect your self from the small chance of catching a disease?, and not ok to protect your self from the small chance of violence by another?
Having a Tetanus shot has no risk. Having widespread access to guns sees your homicide rate soar to four times that of the UK. No risk, vs risk. Your analogy is stupid.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
"Since 1982, we’ve analysed the annual British Crime Survey (BCS) in conjunction with police recorded crime figures to get a more accurate picture of UK crime, and we publish all the figures in the annual report: Crime in England and Wales." (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/crime-statistics/?view=Standard)
The Police collect raw data, this and the BCS are used by the Home Office. I have clearly stated several times I go by Home Office figures. Now, let your pet rant die, because it's starting to get embarrassing.
You aren't that bright are you? I haven't kept up with my shots. I got the BCG when I was a baby, so it wasn't my choice. The TB jab was because I was in regular contact with a teacher who had the disease. The tetanus was because my hand had swollen up because the bite had conferred an infection, and my doctor thought tetanus was wise.
Also, your analogy falls flat on it's face. As I have pointed out to you several times, with your lax gun laws, legal gun ownership fuels illegal gun ownership because your guns are not secured on your homes, and hundred of thousands of them are stolen in domestic burglaries each year. Guns are your problem, not your solution.
Having a Tetanus shot has no risk. Having widespread access to guns sees your homicide rate soar to four times that of the UK. No risk, vs risk. Your analogy is stupid.
Really? maybe you better do some research:
TETANUS VACCINE
Acute Transverse Mylelitis after Tetanus Toxoid Vaccination Lancet may 1992 Vol 339 [2pgs]
Adverse Reactions to Tetanus Toxoid JAMA may 1994 vol. 271 [1]
Unusual Neurological Complications Following Tetanus Toxoid Administration J Neurology 1977 ;215 [2pgs]
Guillain-Barre syndrome after Combined Tetanus- Diphtheria Toxoid Vaccination J Neurological Sciences 1997 147 [2pgs]
Abnormal T- Lymphocyte Subpopulations in Healthy Subjects After Tetanus Booster Immunization New England Journal of Medicine Jan 1984 [2pgs]
Really? maybe you better do some research:
Jesus, you really are desperate. Does it kill ten thousand people a year in the USA? No.
Was I in some real danger of having contracted Tetanus? Yes.
Risk vs Benefit. Do the maths.
Can you make a point, and stick to it? I guess not, I shot your BCS rant out of the water, squashed the Swiss fallacy, and I guess you have nothing left.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Jesus, you really are desperate. Does it kill ten thousand people a year in the USA? No.
Was I in some real danger of having contracted Tetanus? Yes.
Risk vs Benefit. Do the maths.
Can you make a point, and stick to it? I guess not, I shot your BCS rant out of the water, squashed the Swiss fallacy, and I guess you have nothing left.
Yes do the math, you are in the same risk of contracting tetanus as you are of being a victim of violent crime.
You have the same percentage of probability, of contacting a deadly disease, as you are of becoming a victim, or your family becoming a victim of violent crime, you protect your self from disease, so what is so illogical about protecting your self from violent crime?
Your the one who is desperate, the Government crime numbers are a fantasy, the methodology of the reporting is skewed to the point of being useless, the Government admits that the Numbers are skewed and as much as 158% in some categories, so yes, the desperation form you is entertaining to say the least.
Yes do the math, you are in the same risk of contracting tetanus as you are of being a victim of violent crime.
Please back that up with some statistics.
You have the same percentage of probability, of contacting a deadly disease, as you are of becoming a victim, or your family becoming a victim of violent crime, you protect your self from disease, so what is so illogical about protecting your self from violent crime?
Nothing. I prefer to protect myself from violent crime by reducing the number of firearms available to would be assailants. I also trained in various martial arts, so if someone wants to go toe to toe, they are welcome. People don't seem to like pushing things into violence when they see I'm not going to back down, and it looks like they're going to get hurt. Guns make it too easy for people, whereas getting punched on the nose puts a lot of people off starting.
Your the one who is desperate, the Government crime numbers are a fantasy, the methodology of the reporting is skewed to the point of being useless, the Government admits that the Numbers are skewed and as much as 158% in some categories, so yes, the desperation form you is entertaining to say the least.
Learn to read, the Home Office use the BCS AND raw data from the Police Force. I read home office stats. The methodology is not skewed to be useless, because like I say, it's unlikely many people are victims of the same crime five times in one reporting period. Very unlikely in fact. Let it go, you are embarrassing yourself, and still don't seem to understand that you are underlining what a pussy you are, if you think you need a gun, while claiming you have less crime to put up with than I do. Grow a spine, eh?
I think all guns should be destroyed along with other tactics that kill and represent power. Like bombs, poisons and propaganda.
Doesn't everyone agree?
I completely agree. Although it could probably never happen.
Please back that up with some statistics.
Nothing. I prefer to protect myself from violent crime by reducing the number of firearms available to would be assailants. I also trained in various martial arts, so if someone wants to go toe to toe, they are welcome. People don't seem to like pushing things into violence when they see I'm not going to back down, and it looks like they're going to get hurt. Guns make it too easy for people, whereas getting punched on the nose puts a lot of people off starting.
Learn to read, the Home Office use the BCS AND raw data from the Police Force. I read home office stats. The methodology is not skewed to be useless, because like I say, it's unlikely many people are victims of the same crime five times in one reporting period. Very unlikely in fact. Let it go, you are embarrassing yourself, and still don't seem to understand that you are underlining what a pussy you are, if you think you need a gun, while claiming you have less crime to put up with than I do. Grow a spine, eh?
phlog, afa crime rates you cannot compare the U.S to U.K. It is really that simple. In addition to the hard drugs shipped into u.s via the countries to the south they also import violent people - illegally. The majority of immigrants are hard working people and dont bother anyone but look at the crime stats. from where they come from, there are how many countries in the top 6 alone? use your head.:shrug:
I dont own a gun but i cant tell law abiding citizens not to own one and that only criminals can own the. Plus some people just like shooting and do live in areas where crime is almost non-existent. It sounds a little like you are jealous.
Plus some people just like shooting and do live in areas where crime is almost non-existent. It sounds a little like you are jealous.
I like shooting. I used to be a guest member of a shooting club. What I am in favour of, is safe and accountable gun ownership. Leaving loaded guns in bedside cabinets, for children or thieves to discover is madness. Hell, I keep my airpistols and ammunition for my air rifles locked away.
I'll ignore the rest of your xenophobic rant.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
phlogistician, that is the problem, the raw data, and the way it is collected, and the fact, that the Government has admitted to the fact that their collection methods are skewed.
If the collection method of raw data is skewed, then that data is useless.
That is exactly what the problem is the method of collecting that raw data, and the way it is reported.
If the collection method of raw data is skewed, then that data is useless.
That is exactly what the problem is the method of collecting that raw data, and the way it is reported.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
phlogistician, you don't have a leg to stand on, the government numbers, raw and reported are skewed, that is common knowledge even in the News in Great Britain.
You do not have any accurate data.
You do not have any accurate data.
I like shooting. I used to be a guest member of a shooting club. What I am in favour of, is safe and accountable gun ownership. Leaving loaded guns in bedside cabinets, for children or thieves to discover is madness. Hell, I keep my airpistols and ammunition for my air rifles locked away.
I'll ignore the rest of your xenophobic rant.
so you are jealous. And that is not a xenophobic rant because it is true, who cares what you ignore.
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Mickmeister
Registered Senior Member
phlogistician, you don't have a leg to stand on, the government numbers, raw and reported are skewed, that is common knowledge even in the News in Great Britain.
You do not have any accurate data.
I don't know, the IRA sure held their own with the British in a country where guns are banned. Also, there was just a report yesterday saying that the Mexican army is having trouble containing the drug lord wars in a country where weapons are totally banned. Those policies sure worked great!