I hate creeds with a passion

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Flores

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Lately, I was asked by someone here to sum up my believe in Islam. I was stunned, but the more I thought about it, the more I came to realize that he was asking me to give him my creed.

A creed is a short summary of the basic beliefs of the church or organization, because a creed statement is based on the assumption that everyone in the church believes the same thing, creeds have became my number one enemy....

The Methodist church uses the following creed by the Apostles . It begins with the lines, "I believe in God almighty, And in Christ Jesus, his only son, our Lord, Who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, Who was crucified under Pontius Pilate and was buried..."

The Catholics said the Nicene creed which tries to be more specific and is certainly longer. It begins, "We believe in one God the Father, All-Sovereign, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible; And in our Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, Begotten of the Father before all the ages, Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten not made, of one substance with the Father, through whom all things were made; who for us men and for our salvation came down from the heavens, and was made flesh of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man, and was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried...."


And the official baptist creed goes like this:

1. We believe that a personal relationship with God, through Jesus Christ, is essential for salvation (Rom. 5:1, 8:1, etc.) Baptists believe that the eternal quality of life is found through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord and that nothing else is needed for that purpose.

2. We believe in the priesthood (or ministry) of all believers. (1 Tim. 2:5, 1 Pet. 2:4-9, Eph. 4:12, etc.) Baptists believe that all mature people are able to relate to God for themselves through faith in Jesus Christ and that it is their right to do so.

3. We believe that the believer's initiation into the Church of Jesus Christ is baptism by immersion, because-

-only a believer can mean what baptism professes. (Acts 2:38-40)
-only immersion can symbolize death and resurrection. (Rom. 6:1-4)
Baptists believe that, to be true to the meaning of the Greek word, baptizo, (to immerse or dip,) baptismal candidates should be buried in water and raised up, as our Lord was buried in the tomb and raised from the dead for our salvation. However, while we hold such baptism to be necessary in obedience to the Scriptures, we do not believe that it is necessary for salvation, and we believe that little children (who are not old enough to confess faith in Christ) are safe in the love of God.
4. We believe that the church is composed of believers in Christ, of those who share the Christian experience. (I Cor. 12:12-27, Eph.4:1-16) Baptists hold that all who believe in Christ are in His Church, and that local churches are groups of baptized believers united to worship God, to receive instruction in the faith, to enjoy supportive fellowship and to serve God and humanity as "the body of Christ".

The Mormon creed goes like:
1) We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2) We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3) We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4) We believe that the principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5) We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6) We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7) We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
Ect...Ect...


I HATE CREEDS WITH A PASSION...I WISH THEY ALL JUST GO AWAY.
 
A creed is a set of fundamental beliefs or a guiding principle and you yourself have a creed. You may not call it a creed, but by definition, you have one also.
 
Yeah I've got to agree with you here, Flores! Beware of Dogma! Get rid of any formal written frameworks for theological organizations and let it all float up in the air so that every religion will eventually become as laughable as say wicca or "neo paganism". It may not seem fair to individual religious organizations, but maybe it’ll get people to just calm the hell down about their own religious beliefs.
 
Flores, Catholics believe and say both the Apostle's creed and Nicene creed. The reason for creeds is so that people are instructed in proper doctrine.
 
Flores,

Your examples seem somewhat selective.
What about, "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger."?

~Raithere
 
Consider creeds to be the disgraceful form of apologetics...

Recite another's words from memory to pronounce your "personal" faith. Go figure..

Interesting, I've never heard of the Baptist creed, and I'm Baptist. Of course, they'll never get me to say it ;)
 
Raithere said:
Flores,

Your examples seem somewhat selective.
What about, "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger."?

~Raithere

I was thinking about that one Raith....You have to ask yourself who makes a creed a creed, who establish the exact set of word and what are they derived from. As far as the muslim creed, I find it in Hadeeth, not in the Quran. The Quran clearly says that the believers, christians, Jewish, Sabians and all those that believe in god and the hereafter will be okay...That statement of the Quran on it's own nullifies any creed, because it establishes the fact that god decides the criteria, not man.

I do say, La (No) Illah (worshipper) Ila (except) Allah (The one worthy of worship). The rest have many variation depending on who is saying it. I like to say that Mohamed is his servant and final messanger. Other say and Mohamed is his messanger, whatever people decide to say to themselves should not be construed as a uniting creed with another person, because the intent of a creed is to unite the person with their object of faith, not with other members of the so called faith.
 
Flores said:
As far as the muslim creed, I find it in Hadeeth, not in the Quran. The Quran clearly says that the believers, christians, Jewish, Sabians and all those that believe in god and the hereafter will be okay...That statement of the Quran on it's own nullifies any creed, because it establishes the fact that god decides the criteria, not man.

So your Quran states that the creed in the your hadeeth is wrong - nice contradiction.
 
Creeds are sort of like memes - with their unit of replication being held in our various languages and stored in our brains, or paper, or electrons on a screen. The power comes with the ability to organize people (or should I say program them) and to then use that collective to some purpose. Creeds needn’t be negative. I like the one that says “hey you shouldn’t hurt someone” or “everyone should have the freedom of expression”. The mind seems too ready to accept these things, especially at an early age. And maybe that’s why rebellions often start at Universities – a place of meme manufacturing. The sad thing is, it seems, when some jackasses use these to their own corrupt ends. Like taking the later meme (freedom of expression) and using it neglect the prior (like killing Iraqi’s to give them that freedom). I guess it’s the way we’re wired.

The notion of Islam, and hence my earlier question, was instigated by a person who used to post here a while ago. Allahmathamatics. Who one day mentioned he was Atheistic but very much Islamic. So sometimes I like to ask others what they think Islam is to them.
 
What's wrong with a creed? You can make it up yourself. And be aware that religions contain so many little tinchy titchy details that a "short" creed could be a million words long, methinks.
 
Vienna said:
So your Quran states that the creed in the your hadeeth is wrong - nice contradiction.

No contradictions here......Contradiction is a set of different guidelines find in the same piece of work. Hadeeth is a completely different piece of work than the Quran. It was written by many many people over many many years who supposidely stated that they overheard someone who everheard everyone who everheard noone who over heard the prophet spit three times while washing his teeth.....They put all those little things together and called it the life of Muhammed. The Quran is not about the life of Muhammed and thus you are comparing apples and prunes.
 
glaucon said:
Is that your creed? :)

Only If I start saying it everytime I get startled...Even then, I wouldn't call it a creed, an obsessive compulsive behavior perhaps.
 
Flores said:
No contradictions here......Contradiction is a set of different guidelines find in the same piece of work. Hadeeth is a completely different piece of work than the Quran. It was written by many many people over many many years who supposidely stated that they overheard someone who everheard everyone who everheard noone who over heard the prophet spit three times while washing his teeth.....They put all those little things together and called it the life of Muhammed. The Quran is not about the life of Muhammed and thus you are comparing apples and prunes.
OK, So who wrote the Quran?
 
Vienna said:
OK, So who wrote the Quran?

Run along child and pick your nose somewhere else. Not every thread here is a special dedication for Vienna to spread her complexes about Islam. We are talking about creeds here, and I'm saying that the Quran and the bible have no special creed in them. If you want to ask a specific creed question, go ahead, but this thread is not about muslims neither is it about the origin of Quran or the bible for that matter.
 
Flores said:
Run along child and pick your nose somewhere else. Not every thread here is a special dedication for Vienna to spread her complexes about Islam. We are talking about creeds here, and I'm saying that the Quran and the bible have no special creed in them. If you want to ask a specific creed question, go ahead, but this thread is not about muslims neither is it about the origin of Quran or the bible for that matter.
OK. Thats fine by me.

All you had to say was "I Don't know", ah well. :rolleyes:
 
Vienna said:
OK. Thats fine by me.

All you had to say was "I Don't know", ah well. :rolleyes:


you are wasting every one's time. Go back to your castle la la land please.





NOW!
 
... I HATE CREEDS WITH A PASSION...I WISH THEY ALL JUST GO AWAY.


And it has come to pass that the screed which is the original post in this thread is in point of fact a creed, demonstrating self-hate, as per the directives of the screed/creed.
 
This is an old thread and I see no reason to resurrect it just to troll or flame-bait.

Closed. If anyone has an issue with it, please send me a PM and I'll review.
 
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