I believe...

superluminal

superluminal

I am MalcomR
Valued Senior Member
I need help.

Why is it so painfully obvious to me (and many others) that religion is just a series of fairy-tales that have been co-opted by those that desire power, and sold to those that desire shallow comfort?

It's so obvious that it makes my head hurt. All of the billions of words of hyperbole spent over thousands of years have resulted in nothing but employment for philosophers and rulers. Arguments about supposed good vs the supposed bad that religion has caused are moot. There is not one damned thing that religions do that conscientious atheists throughout time haven't done better. No agenda you see.

Atheists simply want religious people to keep it to themselves. We want to live in a fair and peaceful world without having to subscribe to some mythical worldview.

And no, I don't have to respect your beliefs. I can respect you as a person, but your silly beliefs need to be ridiculed for what they are: Slavish adherence to some stupid dogma that you just happened to be born into.

There is ZERO to be learned from dogma. There is no progress. There is no free thinking. This book teaches us this... That book teaches thus and such...
Bullshit. Even scientific textbooks get revised when something new is discovered. But Oh-Noes! Not my HOLY book! It's perfect as it is. In all of its glorious ambiguity that's open to any fucking interpretation you care to put on it. Like convincing all of you slaves to go to war for your god. Or belittling and damning people for who they want to love. Or for wearing the wrong clothes...

You're all (you "believers") a bunch of sheep at best and a bunch of willfully stupid humans at worst.

Don't believe shit. Test it. Demand some proof. Use empirical reasoning. Anything. Think for shit sake. Be real humans with a brain.

It's a fairy tale, for crying out loud. And you're all just succumbing to peer-pressure, just like you were in high school. Grow up.
 
Super,

Believers get the following benefits:

* Easy access psychological satiation provided by their religious organizaions.
* An automatic cooperative support network of resources for those in a congregation.

This is why humans are genetically prone to belief. It is a survival advantage. Remember, we are not organisms whose function is to discover truth. We are organisms whose function is to collect energy and persist... even if we have to delude ourselves in the process.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
Wonderful rant. Too bad you can't walk through downtown Baghdad or hike in the Bible Belt shouting it at the top of your lungs without getting killed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well. I needed to blow off some steam. I get so sick of the blah, blah, blah of religion. It's patently a load of horseshit and I just can't wrap my head around the vast ignorance required to embrace such... ignorance.

Anyhoo...
 
Crunchy Cat said:
Super,

Believers get the following benefits:

* Easy access psychological satiation provided by their religious organizaions.
* An automatic cooperative support network of resources for those in a congregation.

This is why humans are genetically prone to belief. It is a survival advantage. Remember, we are not organisms whose function is to discover truth. We are organisms whose function is to collect energy and persist... even if we have to delude ourselves in the process.
Click to expand...

Yes, but knowing that, don't you want to use your intelligence to surpass such a lifestyle? To make things a bit better through actual planning rather than beseeching a non-existent entity (which works no better than random chance)?
 
superluminal said:
I need help.

Why is it so painfully obvious to me (and many others) that religion is just a series of fairy-tales that have been co-opted by those that desire power, and sold to those that desire shallow comfort?
Click to expand...
Because you have values that don't enable a valid picture of a divine universe to enter your world view (so the default position of any value conflict is "coz they're a bunch of stinky guys")
It's so obvious that it makes my head hurt. All of the billions of words of hyperbole spent over thousands of years have resulted in nothing but employment for philosophers and rulers.
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interesting
so you don't think that philosophy or politics is the proper forum for presenting or representing theological causes

Arguments about supposed good vs the supposed bad that religion has caused are moot. There is not one damned thing that religions do that conscientious atheists throughout time haven't done better. No agenda you see.
Click to expand...
sure that's why it is commonly suggested in philosophical treatises that mere "doing good" is a mundane aspect of religion
Atheists simply want religious people to keep it to themselves. We want to live in a fair and peaceful world without having to subscribe to some mythical worldview.
Click to expand...
so you have an interest to apply your values to politics ... a point that hardly makes you unique in this world
And no, I don't have to respect your beliefs. I can respect you as a person, but your silly beliefs need to be ridiculed for what they are: Slavish adherence to some stupid dogma that you just happened to be born into.
Click to expand...
well small wonder that others also are capable of reciprocating to you from a diametrically opposed position
:shrug:

There is ZERO to be learned from dogma.
Click to expand...
he says from a soap box
lol

There is no progress. There is no free thinking. This book teaches us this... That book teaches thus and such...
Click to expand...
oh pleez
tell us and teach us more!

Bullshit. Even scientific textbooks get revised when something new is discovered. But Oh-Noes! Not my HOLY book! It's perfect as it is. In all of its glorious ambiguity that's open to any fucking interpretation you care to put on it.
Click to expand...
actually you are interpreting that there are no such thing as reformation within religion (kind of strange since even the catholics can some up with vatican II)

Like convincing all of you slaves to go to war for your god. Or belittling and damning people for who they want to love. Or for wearing the wrong clothes...
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If your wardrobe sucks I'm pretty sure its got nothing to do with being an atheist

You're all (you "believers") a bunch of sheep at best and a bunch of willfully stupid humans at worst.
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:rolleyes:
Don't believe shit. Test it. Demand some proof. Use empirical reasoning. Anything. Think for shit sake. Be real humans with a brain.
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Oh you mean begin with the normative issues that frame a claim ... the very thing an atheist never does in slavishly asserting their religious perspectives

It's a fairy tale, for crying out loud. And you're all just succumbing to peer-pressure, just like you were in high school. Grow up.
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so I guess the only solution is to succumb to your peer pressure
gee I feel brainier already ....
 
lightgigantic said:
Because you have values that don't enable a valid...blah, blah, blah...
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All that shit and a buck will get you a cup of coffee. Maybe.

Wake up and smell the reality LG. There's no one and no thing out there to help you, hinder you, enlighten you, guide you, throw lightening bolts at you, etc.

It's just us buddy. You cant demonstrate otherwise, no matter what "training" you think you've had. Unless you are the messiah? Are you the messiah, LG? Do you have revealed knowledge?
 
I understand how you feel, the thing is, a lot of people need that reassurance that what they are doing is not meaningless, that its all going somewhere, so they find something that helps ease the tension of the possibility that this is it. then of course you have the people that don't really need reassurance and absolutely believe.
no matter what the reason, it's best not to disrespect someones religion to their face.
 
superluminal said:
All that shit and a buck will get you a cup of coffee. Maybe.

Wake up and smell the reality LG. There's no one and no thing out there to help you, hinder you, enlighten you, guide you, throw lightening bolts at you, etc.

It's just us buddy. You cant demonstrate otherwise, no matter what "training" you think you've had.

Unless you are the messiah? Are you the messiah, LG? Do you have revealed knowledge?
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Actually I was just talking about the history of religion and a few simple points of philosophy ... all to point out a few sore points in your argument

Kind of strange how you attribute that with being a messiah ....
 
lightgigantic said:
Give me a break
The world is full of morons (of all shapes, colours and creeds ... both with and without moustaches) trying to pass off the statement "use your brain" as "fall inline with my values"
:rolleyes:
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Sure, but the non-morons among us know the difference. We can ask for some solid evidence to base our decisions on. But you guys, well... You got a book or several that tell you everything you need. No revisions or updates allowed no matter what reality actually is.

Pffft. Faith: Willing acceptance without regard to evidence. I.e, Willful stupidity.

And don't go on about my faith in my children or my wife. That's subjective. Your faith is regarding an objective claim of existence. And it's a mindless, soulless husk of self deception. Good luck with that.
 
lightgigantic said:
Actually I was just talking about the history of religion and a few simple points of philosophy ... all to point out a few sore points in your argument...
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I wasn't making an argument. I'm making statements regarding observed reality.

There are no effects in this universe that, without positing a supernatural cause, appear as anything other than natural law or simple randomness. Just because we don't yet know the underlying mechanisms of EVERYTHING in no way points to some deity.
 
lightgigantic said:
I guess here I could just pipe in with the snazzy "use your brain" and leave it at that, eh?

shall we call it checkmate?
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What? And miss all this? This subforum needed a jolt and it's getting it tonight. All it takes is a couple of atheists and a ....well...I'm not sure...whatever it is you are. :D Good night
 
there is nothing wrong with faith. don't you think it is good to have, just in case there is some truth?

don't say there is not a god until you can with out a doubt prove there isn't one.
 
superluminal said:
Sure, but the non-morons among us know the difference. We can ask for some solid evidence to base our decisions on. But you guys, well... You got a book or several that tell you everything you need. No revisions or updates allowed no matter what reality actually is.
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Even if we want to pretend that empiricism has the monopoly on knowledge, you still have the same problem.

I mean just the 5 senses?
Gosh when are these bozos going to come up with something new.
:D

Pffft. Faith: Willing acceptance without regard to evidence. I.e, Willful stupidity

And don't go on about my faith in my children or my wife. That's subjective. Your faith is regarding an objective claim of existence. And it's a mindless, soulless husk of self deception. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...
maybe its your distaste of philosophy which caused you to overlook that any ontological claim is under-ridden by issues of faith
(Perhaps you will try and prove to me that there is nothing beyond the senses since extensive research with the senses hasn't revealed any)
/grabs popcorn
 
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