I am conflicted and want answers.

[John99]

First i will begin by stating that technology and science has brought us amazing thing's, DNA, medicine and hard drives the size of a fingernail are just a few examples.

I know while reading the first part 90% of the people here will right it off as being stupid. If that is the case then explain why or scroll down to the other sections. Dont just write this off as a religious viewpoint or creation vs. evolution and pick a side and stick with it.

Part one:

Recently a poster stated 'Evolution is a fact', i have been thinking about this for years and would like a difinitive answer...once and for all/

Evolution:

See this post for the links:

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1391073&postcount=22


Could we be looking at entirely seperate species with no evolutionary link, some simply becoming extinct and without any relation to evolution?

What is the one thing that would show evolution to be a fact?

Is it even remotely possible the humans and dinosaurs coexisted?

Part two:

Psychics.

I have heard some incredible stories, well mostly watched them on T.V, you all may have seen them where they deal with actual criminal cases. Last night i saw one and the female psychic nailed every single detail of this case and the same thing with the other two cases.

This was not luck or random guess work, at first the psychic knew no details other than photographs of the missing people. The stories where told from the actual investigators, this is not television make believe..

The psychic claimed that the victim's spoke to her. It is easy to write this stuff off but to get every detail from beginning to end 100% correct, dont you think that is odd?

How can that be explained? I never went to a psychic nor would I pay those that put have storefront etc.

Part three:

Mother's Day:

Is Mothers Day or similar celebrated in other culture?

I have a story (true) about Mother's Day and of an actual event that took place...maybe i will share it...we'll see how it goes.

Part four:

Life expectancy:

The point is that i was recently in an old cemetary and looking at the dates i noticed most lived for 80-90 years and the dates were all 1800's up to 1950 etc. yet we are constantly told that people live longer today than at any other point in history. Is that really true?

:shrug:

I put this thread here because i thought it would be a good place to start and dont want to upset any actual scientist's or play scientist's on the forum.

 

[James R]

John99:

Part one:

Recently a poster stated 'Evolution is a fact', i have been thinking about this for years and would like a difinitive answer...once and for all/

Evolution:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H..._in_Nature.jpg

http://www.wsu.edu/gened/learn-modul.../timeline.html

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...monkee---3.jpg

http://www.speaking4baby.com/images/Baby2.gif

Finally, look at this:
http://www.wilderdom.com/images/Huma...uenceSmall.jpg

Most of these links don't work, because you haven't included the entire URLs.

Could we be looking at entirely seperate species with no evolutionary link, some simply becoming extinct and without any relation to evolution?

No. Genetic evidence alone shows that all living things on Earth are related.

What is the one thing that would show evolution to be a fact?

There is probably no one thing. Rather, evolution is supported by a range of evidence from many different sources, all independent. It is the accumulation of evidence that proves evolution, not a single fact.

Is it even remotely possible the humans and dinosaurs coexisted?

Well, there's no evidence that they did, and a lot of evidence which suggests the contrary.

Part two:

Psychics.

I have heard some incredible stories, well mostly watched them on T.V, you all may have seen them where they deal with actual criminal cases. Last night i saw one and the female psychic nailed every single detail of this case and the same thing with the other two cases.

This was not luck or random guess work, at first the psychic knew no details other than photographs of the missing people. The stories where told from the actual investigators, this is not television make believe.

You don't see the editing process that goes into creating TV programs. And these psychic shows NEVER tell you all the facts, because they generally want to promote a belief in psychic abilities.

But think: how many of these shows ever have a disinterested skeptic comment on the particular cases? Hardly ever. And if they do, the skeptic normally gets about 30 seconds air time in an hour-long programme. And their comments are often edited to make it look like their criticisms are just silly.

Part four:

Life expectancy:

The point is that i was recently in an old cemetary and looking at the dates i noticed most lived for 80-90 years and the dates were all 1800's up to 1950 etc. yet we are constantly told that people live longer today than at any other point in history. Is that really true?

Yes, on average it is true. You'll always find exceptions. But our health and nutrition (in western nations) has improved markedly over the last 100 years.

For comparison, look what happens when countries go to pot. The average life expectancy in Zimbabwe, for example, was over 60 years only a few years ago. Now it is around 30 years.

I put this thread here because i thought it would be a good place to start and dont want to upset any actual scientist's or play scientist's on the forum.

No worries. Asking questions is never a problem, as long as you're willing to seriously consider the answers you get back.

 

[John99]

Hi James,

Broken links? :bugeye: How did that happen? The links arent crucial to my thread anyway and were random google links, mainly to demonstate timeline of human evolution as it is commonly taught.

No. Genetic evidence alone shows that all living things on Earth are related.

I can acknowledge genetic proof but could this also indicate that there is only one way to design these similar life forms?

"You don't see the editing process that goes into creating TV programs. And these psychic shows NEVER tell you all the facts, because they generally want to promote a belief in psychic abilities.

But think: how many of these shows ever have a disinterested skeptic comment on the particular cases? Hardly ever. And if they do, the skeptic normally gets about 30 seconds air time in an hour-long programme. And their comments are often edited to make it look like their criticisms are just silly."

The professional investigators claimed 'everything told to them was 100% accurate'

IOW these cases were cold and would not have been solved, i wont go over the details but here is an example:

1. method of death

2. clothes the victim was buried in, it was winter and no jacket or sneakers other than that victim was fully clothed

3. Exact timeline from hours before the murder, including who the victim was with and which means of public transporttion the victim took.

4. Where victim was buried.

5. who the murderer was, who was not even a suspect and was not who would in most cases be considered to be a suspect.

She (*the psychic) said that recently deceased are all around us and that the deceadant was communicating with her:shrug:

I know what your saying too, but i love watching those shows.

“ Part four:

Life expectancy:

Yes, on average it is true. You'll always find exceptions. But our health and nutrition (in western nations) has improved markedly over the last 100 years.

Yes i am reffering to western civs., i wonder if nutrition is really any better. A long time ago someone told me about soil depletion, minerals etc? Anyone know about this?

 

[leopold]

What is the one thing that would show evolution to be a fact?

there are certain naturally occurring elements and processes that mutate genes. the genes then either survive or not depending on how they are fit.
the surviving genes get passed on to descendants

The psychic claimed that the victim's spoke to her. It is easy to write this stuff off but to get every detail from beginning to end 100% correct, dont you think that is odd?

yes, it's odd, but no more so than, say, the placebo effect.

 

[RoyLennigan]

I can acknowledge genetic proof but could this also indicate that there is only one way to design these similar life forms?

It could. But there is evidence that all life is related similar to how you are related to your great grandmother or your second cousin.

The professional investigators claimed 'everything told to them was 100% accurate'

People have beliefs. A lot of the time these beliefs do not line up with the actual events, but they have these beliefs nonetheless because they want to. Most people are only wrong because they don't know any better.

IOW these cases were cold and would not have been solved, i wont go over the details but here is an example:

1. method of death

2. clothes the victim was buried in, it was winter and no jacket or sneakers other than that victim was fully clothed

3. Exact timeline from hours before the murder, including who the victim was with and which means of public transporttion the victim took.

4. Where victim was buried.

5. who the murderer was, who was not even a suspect and was not who would in most cases be considered to be a suspect.

She (*the psychic) said that recently deceased are all around us and that the deceadant was communicating with her:shrug:

Many things are unexplained in our world, but I would not get your evidence or support from a TV show such as this. Simply because it is the only investigation on the matter. If there were wide and varied studies by many people of reputable nature and they could find no other explanation, then I would take a different stance.

I know what your saying too, but i love watching those shows.

Because you, like most humans, love mystery and awe more than familiarity. Once we figure something out to the extent that we know it like the back of our hand (such as the earth revolving around the sun) then it becomes dull and uninteresting. But if we were to believe something more mysterious and less-known, then it would be more interesting to us, regardless of its basis in reality.

Yes i am reffering to western civs., i wonder if nutrition is really any better. A long time ago someone told me about soil depletion, minerals etc? Anyone know about this?

Actually, with all the junk foods and mcdonalds, i would say that nutrition, overall, is worse than it used to be. But only because people seem to be lazy and indulgent in their eating habits. If they paid attention to their health and what nutritionists advise, then nutrition would be much, much better than it ever has been.

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Roy Lennigan says "all life is related like you are to your great grandmother," can we see a peer reviewed source for that please Roy?

 

[RoyLennigan]

Like you'd actually read it.

 

[superstring01]

Part four:

Life expectancy:

The point is that i was recently in an old cemetary and looking at the dates i noticed most lived for 80-90 years and the dates were all 1800's up to 1950 etc. yet we are constantly told that people live longer today than at any other point in history. Is that really true?

There's a good reason why so many grave stones showed people with long lives. Way back "then", the only people who could afford grave stones were the upper middle class to wealthy, all of whome ate better and took better care of themselves. Taken on the whole, the human body (barring cancer [or other type diseases] and randome accidents, is geared to live between 65 and 75 years without much medical attention. So, if a person was wealthy enough to avoid the pittfalls of working themselves to death, cancer, mal-nutrition and other such hazards, they would generally live to be a ripe old age of 65-75 years old... and were they rich enough to NOT work themselves to death, they could generally afford a grave stone, something poor people could not do, and thus, are somehow left out of the gravestone statistic.

~String

 

[dexter]

Evolution is not fact, its a theory. One supported by facts, but the truth of the matter is, no one has truley proven it.

DNA evidence has further supported the theory, on a molecular level, and it is hard to theorize about any other natural elements of creation, but until we have scientific evidence of a dolphin growing arms, it is still a theory(though a very well supported one).

As far as what you have seen on TV pertaining to psychics, don't trust everything you see on TV. These shows are created and aired for entertainment value. When we start using psychics as valid parts of law enforcement, then it will be safe to assume that there is something to it, but till then, John Edwards is still the biggest deuche in the universe.

 

[Brian Foley]

Part one:
Evolution:

Yes we evolved from simians , the proof of this is simply we must have a more coomon sense and truthful approach , modern man was not created 10,000 years ago . An intelligence we possess took many hundreds of thousands years to develop into reasoning minds .

Part two:
Psychics.

My sister is a psychic I believe such powers are a remnant of when man roamed the forests and was more in tune with nature , than with urbanisation . We lost that ability when we built cities , its like the appendix which was a useful organ to facilitate digestion many thousands of years ago when we needed it .

Part three:
Mother's Day:

I love my Mum and Mothers are venerated throughout the World . Todays Mothers Day is no different from Secratary day and that is a Capitalist gimmick to sell presents .

Part four:
Life expectancy:

People have always lived to great old ages , it was just the average life expectancy was low because of the high infant mortality rate . Generally most children died before the age of 5 due to common childhood disease such as the mumps and measels . If the child survived those bouts , the child would lead a long life .

 

[John99]

yeah whatever- i am beginning to feel like i am at the dentist.

 

[Brian Foley]

yeah whatever- i am beginning to feel like i am at the dentist.

Right you asked me to come here and answer a post I would not normally answer , as this thread it is utter nonsense . However in light of what I have read , medication is what you need , prefarably a dose of acid , sit back and let the world open up .

 

[MetaKron]

For comparison, look what happens when countries go to pot. The average life expectancy in Zimbabwe, for example, was over 60 years only a few years ago. Now it is around 30 years.

Ever hear of Richard Mugabe?

 

[John99]

Ever hear of Richard Mugabe?

Who?:bugeye:

Right you asked me to come here and answer a post I would not normally answer , as this thread it is utter nonsense . However in light of what I have read , medication is what you need , prefarably a dose of acid , sit back and let the world open up .

i posted it in pseudoscience just to see if i could get some wild responses, just messing around...why are you getting so angry?

 

[Ophiolite]

Could we be looking at entirely seperate species with no evolutionary link, some simply becoming extinct and without any relation to evolution?

This was an alternative view held by many Catastrophists in the early 19th century. Ironically Cuvier, the brilliant anatomist, held to this belief. I say ironically, because his work on comparative anatomy actually provides useful support for evolution, and today comparative anatomy is one of the several pillars that support the reality of evolution.
What Darwin did in On the Origin of Species was to demonstrate that historical observations, rigorously obtained and validated, were as relevant to scientific theory as data obtained under laboratory conditions.

What is the one thing that would show evolution to be a fact?

As JamesR has observed there is no single thing. It is the breadth and depth and variety of the evidence that makes the theory so compelling.
Microevolution:
We routinely observe microevolution in the laboratory and the field. And I shall include under micro-evolution, speciation events, for which we have abundant case histories.
Fossils:
The transition from one species to another, one genus to another, one family to another, is observable time and again, beyond any doubt, in phylum after phylum. This evidence alone is wholly sufficient to demonstrate the reality of evolution.
Comparative Anatomy:
Progressive changes in organs and structures can be traced between different organisms that match the relationships established in the fossil record.
Genetics:
The progressive changes in DNA from one species to another, one genus to another, ...... one phylum to another, one domain to another, mirror the changes we have witnessed in the fossil record and via comparative anatomy.
Embryology:
Significant similarities are seen in the early development stages of organisms believed to be related, though somewhat distantly, based upon one or more of the items above.

Is it even remotely possible the humans and dinosaurs coexisted?

I have been amusing myself for some years in writing a massive Space Opera ranging across many million years of Galactic history. One theme I wished to include was to have humans exisitng contemporaneously with dinosaurs. I devoted considerable effort to establishing a plausible way in which this could have occured, that was consistent with the evidence. Despite a powerful motivation to suceed, I failed, so my conclusion is, no, there is not even a remote possibility.

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Here's some documentation about Humans living with Dragons in Europe.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/nation09.htm

 

[Oli]

Oh yeah, and they use information from Geoffrey of Monmouth. Not quite the most reliable of sources...

 

[John99]

Thanks Oli the Space Opera would have made a good Stanley Kubrick film, it's funny because i was basing my thoughts on popular culture and how it presents this viewpoint. all good responses.

My main interests are origin of species, the mechanics of cultural isolation\genetics, out of Africa. Just specific detailed explanations.

First: Evolution
Second: Panspermia
Third: Creation
Fourth: Combination's of any\all of the above

Too bad evolution\creation discussions get sidetracked to total religious flame wars.

Inevitably this discussion should go beyond this planet and head into the universe and beyond-

One area i find especially intriguing is Panspermia and survivability of organism's based on panspermic event\s. The downside is this would involve evolution- not creation at the the level required.

Here is the order:

Earth
Planets
Solar system\universe
God like entity

Secondary but from the looks of it dead topic is Psychic ability, spontaneous and sustained ability. Not personal abilty but second-person perspective.

Additionally if anyone has time to point me to sciforum links that discuss all the afformentioned topics that would be ok. All topics here have been discussed so many times so links to spefic posts that present a good argument any...well for anything that would be great.

If i dont write detailed response that's only because i want to hear what other people have to say.

er um, well i ran out of stuff to write...