How to travel great distances?

Stryder

Keeper of "good" ideas.
Valued Senior Member
For some time we've had quite a few posts and threads that we've all agreed to disagree upon. One of the main ones is U.F.O.'s (Unidentified Fly Objects, which as Oli mentioned in another thread should really be referred to as U.A.P. Unidentified Ariel Phenomena)

Now I and some others identify that one main fallacy for people that "want to believe" is the point that a Spacecraft travelling light years to reach a planet to spy clandestinely on it's occupants is pretty absurd.

It's usually defined as being absurd because of how people join the dots together and tend to skip some serious science, for instance how does a space craft travel light years in distance? how long are they supposed to have travelled? how economical has this posed alien race made space flight?

Each question alone when looked at properly will decrease the probability of Extraterrestrials ever visiting, but still there are people out there that want to ignore all those facts and announce they are here and the governments of the world have been covering it up.

Considering of course that:
  • Rocket propulsion deals with two methods to create drive, one is based upon the release of pressure (in layman's, pushing force on a puff of gas) the other is of course attempting to propel mass through using Plasma. Each requires a vast fuel source and there is only limited ergonomics that can be applied to increase speed or distance of travel.
  • There is also the point that Space travel to distance solar systems isn't economically viable, it's not like you can just in your Saucer cruiser, fly over to AlphaCenturi for the weekend to try for a spot of fishing (not saying there is actually anywhere to fish) It basically means if there was to be an alien craft then it's likely an entire planets populous would be behind it, do you think they would be on some sort of code of secrecy? I mean you aren't talking about one government keeping a secret here, you are talking about two planets worth of governments keeping a secret.
  • The other small point is the chances of finding a planet with life in the universe. Currently we are yet to be able to identify star systems that have planets let alone planets with life on. Yes we can make measurements and guestimations in regards to planets existing in other star systems, but it really is an abstract guess. If an alien race sent a probe off to find life and they live on a spherical planet like our own then that is 129,240 directions based on whole degrees, which obviously can be made more divisible the further from the planet you travel. In short the further a star system is away the less "random" chance of bumping into another life forum.
  • Lastly there is also the posed point in regards to Observer theory, where our universe is directly related to our observations. If for instance Gravity was shaped based upon Newton's observations, then an "alien" race might not share the same physics because they lacked "Newton". This would mean of course our universe and there universe would be different and we would never exist in the same universe together. This again would lessen the probability of bumping into other life in the universe.

So without side tracking this thread any further, this thread is for you Alien invader/ UFO buffs to explain how your alien's have travelled light years and how they made it viable? so get imaginative and explain how to do the impossible, I'm sure we'd like to hear.
 
Using quantum-entanglement teleportation powered by quantum collider (annihilation energy of certain quantum particles)
 
One thing that sticks with all of the UFO reporters is the shape of the spacecraft they report to have been seeing...in statistical majority most report seeing a spacecraft in shape of a saucer.

In physics term, why would aliens of a technologically superior culture choose such a shape us a saucer? It becomes obvious when we imagine this spacecraft behaving in different simulated conditions.

An object like a saucer can possess a large volume yet retain its aerodynamic properties if it travels at an angle. Moreover an object as a saucer has an ability to have a very low EM wave characteristic, thus it is very hard to detect (to radar for example). Perhaps furthermore a saucer object is most efficient shape to enter subspace of some sort because of the least amount of energy associated with such a maneuver.

Furthermore, the CM of a saucer object is located in its center, if the saucer is spinned it retains its aerodynamic characteristics oncemore. Perhaps the propulsion of the saucer is associated with its spin and thus it is shaped so, however unlike a ball shaped object, the saucer can enter an atmosphere of a planet with minimal exposure to atmospheric heating (less area being burned).

ufo_ph1.gif
 
The one thing that aliens have that we dont have in this technology is energy source to power such immense machines, we dont have the power we need to create such craft and make it viable.

Nuclear reactor would be too heavy and bulky and we would need constant cooling to make it viable source of energy.

And Fusion...is not giving the energy we need.
 
It's impossible...if it were possible we would have absolutely, positively without a doubt figured it out by now right Stryder?....right, lol.

I mean every human knows we have discovered everything there is to know about nature...our unified theory explains everything...oh wait, that's right...we don't have a unified theory yet, lol.
Nothing more to learn, nothing more to discover.

Reminds me of the quote
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."

--Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899.
(Actually, I think Stryder is Charles H. Duell reincarnated:D)


Here are some other ones for shitz n giggles:)

"Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction".

--Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse, 1872

"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."

--Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949


"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."

--Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

"But what ... is it good for?"

--Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968,
commenting on the microchip.


"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible."

--Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895.



Your right Stryder...it's impossible.
 
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I don't get it. We "Believers"(More like "open minded" to the infinite possibilities, and massive amount of data out there, on this subject), are supposed to know how to travel interstellar space?

Are we allowed to draw on the speculative data available on the subject? Or is this just a fishing lure, so you can get some skeptic jollies by pulling out the same old bunch of debunks that's be argued Ad Nauseum on this forum and countless others so many times.

Just agree to disagree. Who really gives a shit about what each other thinks about this subject anyway?
 
I by no means claim to have a definitve awnser but from what I have come across I believe that it will entail vibratory change of matter(and even biology) to a state similar to light and powered by zero point energy.
How were going to get there?...I haven't a clue.
Here are some initial theories on the relationship between Black Holes, Anti Gravity, Dark Matter/Zero Point Energy, superluminal potential and how it relates to interstellar travel.
These 2 clips in no way explain everything, I'm simply providing leads for those with a sincere interest and a proactive mind.
Look for how it could work instead of why it won't,...at least initially.:)
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?do...+point+energy&ei=3bmOSJHQJYuGrgPWheC4CA&hl=en

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IybDZKeeDv4
 
yeah people this is all nice and all...but we got to base it on physical facts backed up by equations which prove this physical phenomena.
 
The problem, or at least, the main problem is having enough energy to travel great distances, maybe not necesserily the time involved. If we could somehow extract energy from the infinite sea known as the zero-point, we would have enough energy to take us as far as we desired; then we would need to think about the time it would take.
 
The problem, or at least, the main problem is having enough energy to travel great distances, maybe not necesserily the time involved. If we could somehow extract energy from the infinite sea known as the zero-point, we would have enough energy to take us as far as we desired; then we would need to think about the time it would take.

About time there was someone that spotted one of the main points. It takes time to travel distance, which is why one of the usual reason people identify it as improbable is basing a long journey on the time it would take with their own period of existence.

We can apply some Darwinism to this, we can state that some animals on the planet can live for centuries (Tortoises) and obviously Plantlife even longer (Like Tree's, Just waiting for John99 to ask "if Tree's can pilot UFOs?")

Some people might raise ideas in regards to Cryogenics, however this might keep a life form lasting a little longer in theory it still serves no practical use, after all if you travelled many light years to meet an alien race, you'd probably want to return to your home world and tell your "friends". Not turn up centuries later to a planet that's as alien as the one you've just found because of all the social changes and loss of friends and family from the time you were away.

Other people might offer a conclusion suggesting "Wormholes" however to be totally honest they have just been theory and something to get Science fiction audiences to be able to identify with how something is suppose to have occurred. Creating some sort of nexus between two points in space requires a lot more than pushing a piece of paper into folding. The other point here is if it was proven to be physically possible then we would already be observing instances of this phenomena, since it's not just distance that would potentially be spanned by this method but time itself. (Considering instantaneous travel between two points would mean you would arrive at a destination potentially before you left. Lets say you were observing a planet in distance from where you arrive at about the same distance as our sun. Light takes 8 1/2 minutes to travel to earth, so for circa 8 minutes you would see a world that you were still on through a telescope)

But this just of course takes it a little further, you see if Wormholes allow time travel who's to say that it would be alien visitors that wouldn't want to be seen and not time travellers concerning themselves of the ripples they could create through interaction. To me it actually kind of makes sense that if we could push our physics boundaries, we would more likely interact with our past than attempt to travel to star systems in the search of life. We'd already be able to reference any attempts, work out where we are attempting to go and plan in regards to that, rather than just picking an interstellar lottery for the "potential chance" to discover another civilization.
 
It's impossible...if it were possible we would have absolutely, positively without a doubt figured it out by now right Stryder?....right, lol.

I mean every human knows we have discovered everything there is to know about nature...our unified theory explains everything...oh wait, that's right...we don't have a unified theory yet, lol.
Nothing more to learn, nothing more to discover.

Reminds me of the quote
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."

--Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899.
(Actually, I think Stryder is Charles H. Duell reincarnated:D)


Here are some other ones for shitz n giggles:)

"Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction".

--Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse, 1872

"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."

--Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949


"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."

--Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

"But what ... is it good for?"

--Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968,
commenting on the microchip.


"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible."

--Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895.



Your right Stryder...it's impossible.

This thread is not for petty grudges, My intention is for people to have their say on the subject without getting into this whole rhetoric battle.

Since you like quotes:
"Notion is but the birth" , Unknown

What this quote means is if you conceive it, then there is a chance to study towards it and make it happen.

Since a number of you believe aliens are piloting UFO's, then you've already conceived it, you just haven't identified "Why,How and identified the Practicality" to then identify that "it happened". Missing that middle transition that requires "Science" is where currently theories fall down and where people are cried down.

This thread is for you to attempt to work out that "Science" or at least allow your imaginations to try and fill it's gap.
 
About time there was someone that spotted one of the main points. It takes time to travel distance, which is why one of the usual reason people identify it as improbable is basing a long journey on the time it would take with their own period of existence.

We can apply some Darwinism to this, we can state that some animals on the planet can live for centuries (Tortoises) and obviously Plantlife even longer (Like Tree's, Just waiting for John99 to ask "if Tree's can pilot UFOs?")

Some people might raise ideas in regards to Cryogenics, however this might keep a life form lasting a little longer in theory it still serves no practical use, after all if you travelled many light years to meet an alien race, you'd probably want to return to your home world and tell your "friends". Not turn up centuries later to a planet that's as alien as the one you've just found because of all the social changes and loss of friends and family from the time you were away.

Other people might offer a conclusion suggesting "Wormholes" however to be totally honest they have just been theory and something to get Science fiction audiences to be able to identify with how something is suppose to have occurred. Creating some sort of nexus between two points in space requires a lot more than pushing a piece of paper into folding. The other point here is if it was proven to be physically possible then we would already be observing instances of this phenomena, since it's not just distance that would potentially be spanned by this method but time itself. (Considering instantaneous travel between two points would mean you would arrive at a destination potentially before you left. Lets say you were observing a planet in distance from where you arrive at about the same distance as our sun. Light takes 8 1/2 minutes to travel to earth, so for circa 8 minutes you would see a world that you were still on through a telescope)

But this just of course takes it a little further, you see if Wormholes allow time travel who's to say that it would be alien visitors that wouldn't want to be seen and not time travellers concerning themselves of the ripples they could create through interaction. To me it actually kind of makes sense that if we could push our physics boundaries, we would more likely interact with our past than attempt to travel to star systems in the search of life. We'd already be able to reference any attempts, work out where we are attempting to go and plan in regards to that, rather than just picking an interstellar lottery for the "potential chance" to discover another civilization.

What is time in the eyes of physics? Apart from the clocks on the wall and the watch around your wrist, time has a very interesting description by physicists. The strange thing about time, is that you cannot see it, touch it, or feel it. We can sense it to some degree - but there is a reason why we sense time; that is because it all exists inside of us. The clock of the universe, is simultaneously and paradoxically a mental clock; time is a product of our minds.

When considering time, we ask questions like, 'what is time?' And other questions like, 'why can't we live forever?' And, 'can we make the hand of the clock move anti-clockwise?' Let's investigate these for a second. We often wonder why our skin ages. What causes my body to age...? Is it simply a process of time?

Yes, and no. Obviously, it takes time to do it. However, scientists think they can locate the subject that causes ageing, the 'free radical' - a deteriate molecule, eating electrons. However, there is no scientific technology as yet that can stop these free radicals from self-destructing. This is just a fact about nature.

The whole world is governed by specific times, in a day or even in a year. The flower will close its petals over night, and re-open in the morning. The trees in autumn will shed its leaves, and sheep in springtime give birth to their lambs. Even humans, females that is, have an 'in-built' maternal clock. In fact, we have several clocks. One is our 'sleep clock.' It is around 24.5 hour sleep clock. Scientists have discovered the gene that causes this perception, and called it the 'Suprachiasmatic Nucleus.'

Time is the 4th dimension of time, physicists call, 'the imaginary dimension of space.' Quantum physics points to a startling conclusion when regarding time - and that is that the human mind is somehow, the same thing as it! It makes us inextricably linked with space, matter and energy. Somehow, through the presence of time, everything is dependant on each other. It is our perceptions of time that interests scientists. Certain times of the day can go faster than other times. Even certain narcotics can play an influence on the human perception.

So can we slow down the molecular process of ageing?

Some scientists think that it is possible. The molecular structures of quantum systems can be tinkered with to alter their life spans. In the Buck Institute in Novato, California, they have been able to increase the lifespan of the Nematode Worm; This is by cataloging its individual genes, the thousands of them. A human being has about 80,000 genes. By locating certain genes inside of humans, we can alter disease, and, in the case of the Nematode - triple their life spans. Given that humans have a considerable amount more cells than the 959-cell nematode worm, we have around 50,000 billion cells, and a great deal more genes, about 60,100 more; can we alter human life expectancy in mapping and cataloging the human genetic makeup?

There is a tree is Bristlestone National Park, near Death Valley in Sunkist California that is 4785 years old! It was given the most appropriate name of the 'Methuselah,' named after the biblical character in Genesis, father of Lamech and oldest man to be recorded, as 969 years. Being as old as the pyramids themselves, older than Christ, It has lasted this long because it has an amazingly slow metabolism.

Theoretically, a human can add an extra 5-10yrs onto their life spans by eating less (this ensures we don't use up too much energy - this is semi-starvation treatment, and they perform this on chimps), and exercise less (also to retain as much energy.) This of course happens because of a conservation of energy, by doing a lot less than the average human my metabolism will run much slower. Thus my cells use up less energy, then needing less energy.

The speed of time can fluctuate and change as moments pass around large cosmological dense bodies (even the earth produces time warps), but it cannot simply disappear from the fabric of space, because it is a universal 'invariant'. There are many 'invariant' relationships in physics. Invariance is a constant that shall remain, therego, despite if something changes. A good example is a tree. It will bud in spring, bloom in summer, but will shed its leaves in autumn. Now in winter it is bare; the invariance here is the tree. So, it is no surprise that scientists are perplexed by the brains ability to warp time senselessly - and in some extreme cases, even makes time disappear - it defies all current scientific understandings.

Baring all of this in mind, speed causes a time warp as well, so time can be effected drastically from a local point of view, when travelling large distances very quickly. Even if you are moving just a fraction short of c.

Some galaxies in the universe, will be moving already at relativistic speeds short of c, left over from the inflationary period of the universe. Without inflation, all parts of the galaxies would be moving at the same speeds, but since they are observed to be moving at very different speeds, inflation seems to be a very acceptable model in physics and cosmology.

If there is a galaxy moving relative to us at near light speed, with an alien civilization in its midst, (an advanced one at that), then it is possible according to the known laws of physics that they can move out of their galaxy at exactly the same speed, so it is theoretically possible to have the advantage of that speed, without the necessery energy requirements to accelerate up to that speed, from slower speeds.

Not only that, but relativistically speaking, their clock was always running slower than ours. And even better: The cosmos could have evolutionary created them very early on in the univeses history, possibly millions of years before us. This would have given them also the advantage of becoming very smart, so much quicker than expecting ourselves to show up on this infinite map of spacetime.

Wormholes are a good idea, as Stryder mentioned. A few technological problems arise however. After mathematical studies, it seems that to create a wormhole, you need an energy device something like the size of the entire solar system!!

The problem with a time machine is that it would require such an enormous amount of energy to do what i want. Dr. Michio Kaku, a well renown physicist just completed a series on channel four TV. called ‘Time’, and he was asked to build a time machine.

His idea was to have a gigantic atom collider, the size of the solar system to accelerate a beam of particles equal to amazing speeds, until it reaches a point called the 'Planck Energy' were space and time become unstable, and a rip can be caused in the fabric of space. This is because the particles focus an intense beam at a certain region in space and time, and the temperatures force the universe to link up with another place in that universe, or if theory is correct, to parallel universes. The wormhole gateway into another time and place would be very small. However, the presence of exotic matter could blow it up to a more reasonable size, fit for a human.

Wormholes inside of black hole are threaded with this 'antigravity' substance called 'exotic matter.' physicists aren't able to make this in labs today, but, it is believed to be a main proponent in the rapid acceleration of our universe, as it is thought to pervade our universe. One mouth of the wormhole is then taken to a 'Neutron Star.' This is a 'superdense' remnant of a dead star. One spoonful of the material weighs as much as all the cars and vans in the world put together! It will create a high gravitational field - and it is here, time becomes distorted and slowed down.

Thus, leaving one end of the wormhole at the neutron star, will slow the age of it. Let's say that he left it there until it was a year younger, than the other end. Then, entering very carefully one end of the wormhole, i can come out the other end a year back in the history of the universe. Though, i must stress, as grand as Dr. Michio's idea is, it is still science fiction, and he is aware of this. The amount of energy required is astronomical - in fact, the energy we can produce in colliders today is around a quadrillion time less than what would be required.

Then, if we where able to travel freely in time, what about the paradox's that come with it all? Einstein gave us some examples of these paradox's and riddles, where a time traveler goes back in time and kills his father before he reaches puberty; but this is where the inconsistency arises. If he killed his father before he met his mother, then that would suggest that [he] was never born, hence the paradox. If he never existed, how could he go back in time to kill his father?

Though, some physicists get around this problem with parallel universe theory. If one travels through the time barriers, according to theory, one travels into other universes. Einstien’s relativity, explains that time is not fixed. Time can be traveled through, just like space. With time not being absolute, must mean that our past time can be someone’s present or someone’s past...

In fact, contained time travel (as in, time travel soley in this universe), may be entirely impossible, with the existence of other universes. The idea, is that you move through time, but act more like a graviton, ending up in a similar universe to this one, at a specific designated time. By theory, you could travel forever, and never ever return back to the original universe, but only by fluke.
 
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