vincent28uk said:
HOW TO TORTURE & BELITTLE YOUR MUSLIM WIFE!!!!!!!
.....................etc,
1) again, i ask you to read your own link in the original post on another thread. furthermore, this practise is said to originate in africa over 4000 years ago. today the practise is still common in africa (mostly ethiopia and kenya---predominately christian btw) and is culture driven. it has been adopted by several religions through the culture, christianity, animists and yes islam. even though i fail to believe any religion requires it, and there is no authentic documentation from any religion. an interesting piece of information i found is that it is also practised by ethiopian jews and called "falashas". in fact, the countries where this happens most are Benin, Burkina Faso, Central African Republic, Chad, Côte d'Ivoire, Egypt, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Kenya, Liberia, Mali, Nigeria and Togo, where it is approximated that 50% of girls have this done to them. note that only eygpt, nigeria and "muslim" countries. sources (
western of course for vincents' pleasure ): the UN, UNICEF, CUNY, Emmanuel Babatunde, Waris Dirie & Cathleen Miller, Efua Dorkenoo, Scilla McLean, Kluge. there was a bill passed in the US in 1993 prohibiting this act, due to isolated incidents in the US -- was not made illegal in the US until 1993!!! further reading shows that it even arises in australian ethnic groups (i was surprised at that one!).
2) the burkha is, again a cultural thing. hindu women have been wearing the veil for thousands of years (btw, a side note, they can marry as young as 5 years old "A man, aged thirty years, shall marry a maiden of twelve who pleases him, or a man of twenty-four a girl of eight years of age; if (the performance of) his duties would otherwise be impeded, he must marry sooner."[Manu IX.94] -- even today!).
In christianity, "And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head"Corinthians 11:5-7. FYI, there are many christians who interpret this as the face (india, africa). even though the references are to the head only.
covering of the head is clear in the bible, islam, hinduism, judaism. even nuns do it!
3) i have yet to see islamic text on this. since the incident happened in pakistan (probably a very uneducated man) i would like to point out the folowing. a study of the UN found the following statisitc: "USA murders of women committed by "intimate relations" are 15 per year per million population." assuming the the population of the US is 300 million, that 4500 women! now in contrast the same report indicates that "The rate in Pakistan is 6.44 per million." that is only 960. the number doesnt really mean anything, but the percentage does! of i forgot, in the UK police attend to 750,000 domestic violence reports per year, 90% are women -- that is 675,000!!!!
i agree they are not all deaths, but this is more of an apples-to-apples comparison.
4) this is actually the punishment in the bible for the same act. stoning is a part of christianity and judaism.
" 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife-with the wife of his neighbor-both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death." Leviticus 20:10. surprisingly cursing your parents is also punishable by death.
of course you may respond with the famous line "he who is free of sin cast the first stone". but the technicality is clear.
death for adultery is in many cultures, there is no need to expand on that, a simple search is sufficient.
and FYI, proof is needed. only for adultery, in islam, does the burden of proof require a minimum of four witnesses and they have to actually see the insertion of the penis in to vagina. now you tell me how easy it is for four people to actually see that! finally, the death penalty is the
maximum sentence that can be imposed. lesser penalties have been issued and is actually more common.
5) divorce cannot be done on the phone, nor by one word in anger as commonly believed. for divorce to be legal in islam, it must in a calm state, in front of a judge with two independent witnesses. such an act in anger, is not binding.
isnt divorce illegal in catholisism, (not an attack on catholisim, but you are a catholic, so that is why i ask if you subscribe to that point of view) but many do it.
in judaism, a man can divorce a woman for any reason and for no reason. in fact, the talmud specifically says that a man can divorce a woman due to cooking bad food or simply if he is attracted to another woman, and the woman's consent to the divorce is not required. according to the torah, divorce is accomplished simply by writing a bill of divorce, a "get" handing it to the wife, and sending her away. it is not even necessary for a husband to personally hand the "get" to the wife. if it is not possible or desirable for the couple to meet, a messenger may be appointed to deliver the get --- mobile phone?
in true hindu society, the woman had no right to divorce and no right to remarry and no right to leave the house and approach any one without her husband's permission and the husband. but in the hindu marriage act of 1955, it was revised that divorce can be done only on certain grounds.
you would think that a divorce being that easy (on the phone) would result in more divorces. but the highest divorce rates are in the forst world.
6) And for women are rights over men the same to those of men over women. (2:226) you statement is untrue. provide islamic texts supporting your claim. men and women are equal but different. they play different roles in the world. these roles are not defined, but are agreed upon to ensure stability of the family and society.
the ideology of not being equal stems from pre-islamic cultural traditions such as:
christianity (too many bible quotes, many have been pointed out in previous threads by many, i am sure you are familiar with them: i mean, you
are a catholic),
judaism (a famous jewish saying goes something like "Its impossible for there to be a world without males and females. Nevertheless, happy is the man whose children are males, and woe to the man whose children are females.", they have no special celebratory rituals like for the boys and men) read more by Swidler J. Leonard,
hinduism (is well documented by the UN that hinduism is the most oppresive system on record in the treatment of women).
buddhism, many temple in the far east have signs "no women allowed",
now of course, cultures play a very large role in the twisting of teachings. so i am sure that someone who is follower of one of the religions i highlighted, may very well point out the twist, which i welcome, as i do not intend to misquote, mislead or offend anyone.
finally on this issue, i would like to say that each culture/society/belief has its own rules. you do not have to approve of anything. that is their life and they choose how to do it. people are different, in case you havent noticed.
7) only four. it seems many people believe polygamy originated in islam. actually, it was practised by abraham (very famous personality), jacob, moses, david (said to have 100 wives), and solomon (said to have 700 wives and 300 concubines), to name a few. surely you believe in your own book
:
Deuteronomy 21:15, seems to be acceptable.
Matthew 25, the parable of ten virgins going to a bridegroom. this is a description of the kingdom of heaven.
Timothy 3:12, only deacons may have one wife.
here are a couple of sites on "christians for polygamy":
http://www.truthbearer.org/
http://www.polygamy.net/
polygamy was banned by the roman church sometime in the 4th century (i think), and it was only due to the fact it was not a roman practise, and since it was adopted as the official roman religion it had to be changed to suit. martin luther, in the early 1500s, made a call to reinstate it becuase it was a christian right. but alas, religion did not prevail.
about 30,000 practise it in the US today.
8) not true. please provide a list of countries. furthermore, i have lived for certain periods in many islamic countries for work, and my wife/mother/sister have yet to be arrested for going out alone.
..........easier and easier ........
