How To Punish Leaders But Not The People?

[goofyfish]

We see the scenario all the time - Evil Leader oppresses people. Often, Evil Leader causes trouble for neighbors. Also quite often, Evil Leader's oppression causes severe economic problems in his country, leading to poverty, famine, etc.

The world responds with sanctions that either have the side effect of harming the people under Evil Leader's thumb, or are essentially ineffective – “you're such a bad man that we're gonna recall our ambassador. That'll show you!!" Compounding this, if the people need help and the world provides it, it often has the effect of propping up Evil Leader - his people are getting food, so they are less likely to revolt, etc.

There is always constructive engagement. Try to trade with the people, send them movies and television - improve the standard of living and the dictator's power might erode. Assassination? A difficult policy to carry out in an open society. It has to be carried out in secret in order for it to succeed, so you can't have an open vote in the House and Senate on whether such and such a scumbag should be killed, otherwise he's going to get wind of the operation. Another problem with assassinations is that you often don’t know who or what will replace the void. Are the people better off with the dictator or the civil war that follows his removal?

Any thoughts out there on effective responses to Evil Leaders that don't screw the population?

Peace.

 

[wet1]

You've opened a thorny one here. One that I really have no suggestion to offer that would seem better.

I would offer one observation though. Removing one's diplomatic mission should only be done as a last resort. Once you have removed a diplomatic mission you have no way to keep you finger on the pulse of what is happening locally and first hand at the highest levels of the government. Any communications have to then be done in a round-about way with an intermediary and that is usually less than satisfying.

 

[kmguru]

20th century remedies do not work in 21st century...Information is the key...if everything fails - there is CIA...

Are you watching the CBS series "The Agency" lately....?

 

[Azrael]

The CIA has proven to be ineffective at best and incompitent at worst. Sanctions don't really produce the desired result (examples are South Africa in the 80's, they developed there own weapons manufactering capabilities: Iraq is also another good example of the ineffectiveness of sanctions). I don't believe there is a simple answer to the question unless you want to use assaination as a tool, which most gonvernments are unwilling to do.

 

[kmguru]

The CIA has proven to be ineffective at best and incompitent at worst.

Yes. During the cold war - it was basically a war game. Now, the need is real, so they have to change with times. It will take some time and a few more disasters before they will be ready to move to the 21st century technology/methodology.

Behind the scence, there are plenty of solutions - all it needs is to copy innovation from private sector and think out of the box. It wont happen with the old bureaucrats though...

 

[Benji]

Wide spread global assinations, gotta love the CIA handbook.

Real answer is to talk to them, listen to what they want and to strike a deal, hey it works in buisness.

 

[Magic~Carpet~Ride]

The Evil Leaders were either elected by those very same people or ALLOWED to come into power. Funny how everyone seems to forget that.

Can you imagine an "Evil Leader" ever coming to power in the USA, or Europe, Russia or Australia? doesnt happen very often. They dont last long when it does, and they don't engage in campaigns of oppression of their own people and war on everyone else, once that has been achieved.

There is something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG with any culture which allows this state of affairs to come about.

 

[Asguard]

Thats because there are safe guards to prevent it

Did you read anything about the masicurs that occured after East temor voted for independance. Its NOT always the fault of the people

 

[Magic~Carpet~Ride]

Yes, but those massacres were not imposed by the East Timorese, they were Indonesian-instigated massacres. theres a difference there.

 

[wet1]

A lot of the dictatorships come to power through gaining the control of the military. There is little the average citizen can do against such. If someone were to gain control of the military in the US, there would be little that you could do to prevent a take over.

 

[Magic~Carpet~Ride]

The American revolution was achieved by ordinary citizens taking up arms against an unwelcome military power.

The Indians, when Ghandi was around, got rid of the British in a different (and better) way.

The Russian Revolution was an uprising of mostly serfs and peasants, well led but hopelessly underarmed, against the military controled by the Tsar. Although a lot of that very same military turned against their own ruler as well, the point is that the WILL to oust an unwelcome ruler had to be present to begin with.

It's got nothing to do with "can we", but EVERYTHING to do with "WILL we".

If the will to improve your lot doesnt exist, nothing will change.

 

[Asguard]

Pich forks might work against swords but how can they stand against tanks,bombers and who know what else the US (and other) miltary has at its desposal

 

[Magic~Carpet~Ride]

Originally posted by wet1
A lot of the dictatorships come to power through gaining the control of the military. There is little the average citizen can do against such. If someone were to gain control of the military in the US, there would be little that you could do to prevent a take over.

Wet1...
Can you imagine a situation where such a state of affairs would ever come about in the US? or any other western nation in the modern world (of course there are some non-western nations which adhere to this as well)?

If not... ask yourself... WHY not? Asguard said there are safeguards against such an event occuring.... he's dead right, but in addition to that, dont you think that the WILL of the people not to allow such an occurence might have some bearing on the matter? Those very same safeguards are a result of a mind set which can not ALLOW that to happen. It has nothing to do with laws or constitutions... it has EVERYTHING to do with what thought patterns led to those laws in the first place.

sorry to get a little OT Goofy.