How the Cancer gene is flipped 'on'

Telomerase is needed for cells to keep adding telomers to the ends of a chromosome to keep it stable. Without them the chromatids slowly loss their ends after every replication. This is why most cells in the body can only replicate about 60-80 times in virtro. But cancer cells have Telomerase turned on and cancer cells can replicate indefinitely. The theory is if you could prevent telomerase from working then the cancer will stop growing and die

There are problems: many other cells in the body produce Telomerase and need it to stay replicating and cutting that off would have drastic side effect even possible rappied aging
 
Usually it takes several mutations in more than one gene to turn a cell into a cancercell (in vivo). That means that often more than one signaling pathway has to be affected.
 
>> The theory is if you could prevent telomerase from working
>> then the cancer will stop growing and die

You forgot the theory that if a person inflicted with a malignant tumor were (somehow) to be kept alive indefinitely, the cancer cells would essentially be immortal.
 
They would be immortal in that they can divide ad infinitum. They can still die.
 
>> They would be immortal in that they can divide ad infinitum.
>> They can still die.

That's what I was hinting at by saying "essentially".
 
>> mice don't suffer from short telomeres...they still die

Do they

a) not have telomeres?

or

b) have incredibly fast cell division that 'shortens' their lifespan to 2 years?

My guess is b.
 
hmmm

well, this forum seems to be filled with alot of people wanting to know stuff. So I guess I'll do my part, and inform yall. I actually have taked with a person who knew the person who discovered telomeres. Dr.Hayflick had this problem with these cells he was growing up for an experiment, after a certain time they would stop dividing. Anyway hes bitching about this at lunch with his fellow scientists, and one of them joking says that maybe the cells are going old. He meant it as a joke just to shut hayflick up, but hayflick didn't realize that it WAS a joke! So anyway thats how we got the hayflick limit, pretty neat.

Telomerease has been known about for many years, and it really is the problem of greater cell pluripotency or infinite life. Single cell organisms produce tons of telomerase, but with multicellular organisms its different. Here, I'll repost what I said earlier ...

I'm surprised there aren't many actually informed posts on this message forum, I guess I'll have to straighten the whole deal about aging. FYI I am exceptionally interested in aging research, I've read alot about it, I've been to very cool seminars, and I have a very positive outlook as to what the biogerontology field will be able to achive over the next 25 years.


Aging all started when sex evolved, by fusing gametes together two different individuals could create a new offspring instead of just dividing. Were we to reproduce by splitting into two, we would effectively be immortal. But we do not, and our multicellular bodies have through a billion years of evolution refined this whole reproduction thing.

In species that do reproduce by division, they have very high amounts of a protein called telomerase. This enzyme is key to setting the biological clock of any cell. At the end of each chromosome are caps called telomeres, every time a cell divides your telomeres get slightly shorter. With the cap deleted, genes on the edges of the chromosome start to loose nucleotides and eventually the cell no longer has the necessary genes to divide. When you have alot of telomerase your cells never reach this point, infact your telomeres stay the same length.

Now having immortal cells sounds like a good idea, but if your a multicellular being then *some* of your cells might malfunction. By having a set number of times a cell can divide, your body effectively limits the amount of damage a haywire cell can do. The whole deal about aging can be considered as a ying and yang of cancer versus youthfulness. Animals that have longer telomeres have greater chances of healing rapidly, but are more vulnerable to cancer. Mice are a perfect example, they have a great ability to heal however they are also about 60,000 times more succeptible to cancer then humans. The limit to our cells ability to divide is clearly shown with age, but our replicative limit can also be reached by other means. Professional Tri-athaletes are starting to experience significant muscle loss near the age of 45 because their store of muscle stem cells to repair muslce has been run too low because of overuse.

Mutations also play a roll in aging, the more defects in your genes the greater likely hood that even MORE mutations will accumulate. And there are ways for cells to get around the telomere cap problem, the gene to produce telomerase can be switched on and IS done so in many of the large cancers that are life threatening. However reducing the amount of mutations in a cell will only decrease the chances of cancer, and doing this doesn't work by taking anti-oxidants since the body already has its own ample supply.


So, how do we overcome aging? Well, several ways. First off there is a large movement to develope the technology to grow organs, if you slowly replace your body with younger parts before they wear out theres no real limit to how long you can live. Stem cells are also being discovered to be very ample at repairing parts of the body, and the idea of injecting new stem cells to repair old tissue is definetly possible. Any attempt to reverse aging will have to involve two major steps, resetting the telomerase clock, and checking for mutations. If they were going to grow you a new heart, the source cells to use for you would be screened for mutations. By starting the growth of a new organ with fewer mutations you will encounter less complications later on.

The most difficult organ to replace, would obviously be the brain. Simply put, you can't replace it! Already we have found embryonic stem cells can repair old brain damage, and using modified stem cells to rejuvinate the brain would be THE way to combate aging of our most important organ. Recently it was discovered that stem cells even in old age can migrate up to the brain and start creating new neurons. Stem cells as a whole, are KEY to combating aging. Embryonic stem cells are even better, because their cellular organelle are healtheir then the older mitochondria that exist in your own cells.

Cancer itself may be dealt with by creating new genes that are hypersensitive to mutations. Aging and our current situation makes perfect sense when held in the light of evolution. Back when we were hunter-gatherers and death happened ALOT we had evolved to live about 45ish, just long enough to properly raise our children and then die. Our bodies have a combination of cellular pluropotency(ability to heal, etc) and cancer rate that was ideal for our survival. Now had there been enough evolutionary pressure, genes would have evolved that allowed us to live far longer then 45 years but the key word is having *enough* pressure. Humans could evolve to grow purple wings if there was *enough* evolutionary pressure and time. Aging is a health problem, that like many other aspects of biology, is simply a compromise between various conflicting factors.
 
if you

if you have any questions on telomeres, aging, or cancer just ask. I did cancer research over the summer and I take grad courses along with my undergrad load.
 
I happy to see that you are so well informed.



source:

SUMMARY: The role of telomerase in actively proliferating cells is assumed to be restricted to maintaining of telomeres above a minimum-length threshold, thereby preventing telomere...
CONTEXT: Telomeres cap the ends of eukaryotic chromosomes, and vertebrate telomeres are composed of tandem repeats of the TTAGGG sequence bound to a complex array of proteins (Table 1), and have a 3'-overhang, known as the G-strand overhang. The......
Nature Reviews Cancer2, 627 - 633 (01 Aug 2002) Perspective

We have now heard the standard answer to the telomere question. They maintain the telomere length and 'prevent' aging by keeping the chromosome structure stable.

However, people have also overexpressed telomerase in cells with normal telomere length and here telomerase promotes growth and cell survival in a manner not coupled to net telomere lengthening.

what does this mean:
"Importantly, the tight regulation of telomerase activity and telomere length in normal adult tissues indicates that there is a well-controlled balance between ageing and tumour suppression in mammals, and predicts that altering telomerase activity might affect both. ...blabla... Finally, the finding that telomerase activity promotes cell survival reveals possible risks of therapies that are based on telomerase reintroduction. Indeed, various mouse models with transgenic telomerase expression in adult tissues have a higher incidence of both induced and spontaneous tumours18, 34, 35."

basically we might consider not messing with telomerase
 
we can mess with it

we can mess with it but only when we have more senstive anti-mutation genes in place. Right now our oncogenes leave some leway, but we need our cells to be even more sensitive.
 
p53

p53, p21 and MANY other proteins exist to prevent our cells from becoming cancerous, however none of them are fallsafe because we still develope cancer. Our system has to be somewhat resistant to shutting down because of mutations because we only have a finite number of cells to use. When a cell DOES deside to senesce or stop dividing, it messages its surrounding cells to divide to make up for its slack. We as individuals only have so much slack, so our biological systems have evolved to be somewhat leniant. With the ability to culture embryonic stem cells and then insert them into the body after screening, we can now replenish the number of cells in our body. As such, we can now design genes to fight cancer that have NO leniancy to mutations.
 
Re: p53

Originally posted by youngbiologist
With the ability to culture embryonic stem cells and then insert them into the body after screening, we can now replenish the number of cells in our body. As such, we can now design genes to fight cancer that have NO leniancy to mutations.

did you hear about leukemia turned up in children who received stem cell treatment? It was a case of gene therapy. They took bone marrow cells from the patient. Inserted a normal copy of the gene gamma C (the patients had a defective copy) with a retrovirus. And put the cells back into the patient. That all went ok and the cells appeared to behave properly but then some children developed leukemia suddenly. When they analysed what happened they noticed that the gene was inserted in or near the gene Lmo2 which turned it on permanently. This is apparanly the cause of the cancer since permanent activity of this gene is sometimes associated with cancer.
source: new scientist,25 january p12 2003
 
yeah but

yeah but they shouldn't have stopped the study, what they were curing was far worse then leukemia. Leukemia in children is 90% survivable while the bubble boy syndrom is always lethal.
 
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