How simple it really is . . . .

wlminex

Banned
Banned
My alternative theory . . . regarding life . . . and quantum reality

"Quantum emergent energetic patterns are imprinted within organic matter, especially forming a limited variety of repeating nucleic (e.g., DNA) molecular sequences. This occurs via a quantum energy/organic interaction, at micron and submicron scales, similar to the Casimir Effect."

This is the basic formational process. If you can envision this process, the door is opened to explain derivatives of the process, such as consciousness, evolution, life, mind, etc., and its precursors, such as God and spirituality.

Give it some thought . . . if you're not too preoccupied with living your life.
 
Questions about your theory:

"Quantum emergent energetic patterns are imprinted within organic matter, especially forming a limited variety of repeating nucleic (e.g., DNA) molecular sequences. This occurs via a quantum energy/organic interaction, at micron and submicron scales, similar to the Casimir Effect."

1. What is an energetic pattern?
2. What is an emergent energetic pattern?
3. What is a quantum emergent energetic pattern, and how does it differ from other types of emergent energetic patterns? What would be an example of a non-quantum emergent energetic pattern?

4. By what mechanism(s) are energetic patterns imprinted within organic matter, and what is the nature of this imprinting?
5. What is the evidence for imprinting?
6. Why are only a limit variety of sequences formed? Which sequences, specifically, are they?

7. Please explain the term "quantum energy/organic reaction". What is that? What, exactly is interacting with what?
8. Oh, and let's go back a step. Is "quantum energy" different from "organic energy"? If so, how?
9. What instrumentation would I need to detect "quantum energy"?
10. What instrumentation would I need to detect "organic energy"?

11. How did you establish the scale of the interaction to be "sub-micron"? And can you be any more specific than that? Do you have a lower bound?

12. How is any of this "similar to the Casimir effect"?

This is the basic formational process. If you can envision this process, the door is opened to explain derivatives of the process, such as consciousness, evolution, life, mind, etc., and its precursors, such as God and spirituality.

Great, but at this stage I can't envisage the process because there are far too many undefined terms.

Also, I am deeply suspicious of any theory that claims to explain everything (e.g. consciousness, evolution, life, mind, God etc.) A short post claiming you can explain all these things just smacks of crackpottery.
 
Questions about your theory:



1. What is an energetic pattern? eg pattern = repeatable structure
2. What is an emergent energetic pattern? emerging from a source
3. What is a quantum emergent energetic pattern, and how does it differ from other types of emergent energetic patterns? matter of scale What would be an example of a non-quantum emergent energetic pattern? a tsunami

4. By what mechanism(s) are energetic patterns imprinted within organic matter, and what is the nature of this imprinting? Something like the Casimir Effect
5. What is the evidence for imprinting? repeated organic (and possibly inorganic?) molecular patterns
6. Why are only a limit variety of sequences formed? There are a 'limited' variety of nucleic acids comprising DNA, etc. 4, I think Which sequences, specifically, are they? Nucleic (DNA, RNA, etc). nucleic acids (e.g. adenisine, guanine, cytosine . . . and one other I can't think of
7. Please explain the term "quantum energy/organic reaction". What is that? What, exactly is interacting with what? Quantum energy packets (waves?) are 'jiggling' (interacting, as in a detector) the components of organic matter
8. Oh, and let's go back a step. Is "quantum energy" different from "organic energy"? Depends on YOUR deffinition of organic energy . . . I did not use that term. If so, how?
9. What instrumentation would I need to detect "quantum energy"? Currrent rechnology (detectors) do not interact with the very high energy (high frequency, short wavelength) quantum energies . . . however, the Casimir Effect demonstrates quantum energy interactions at the 1 - 40 micron scale
10. What instrumentation would I need to detect "organic energy"? That is YOUR term . . . not mine

11. How did you establish the scale of the interaction to be "sub-micron"? And can you be any more specific than that? Do you have a lower bound? Extrapolating the high energy levels and frequencies of quantum energy packets, I am speculating that the quantum extends into submicron scales

12. How is any of this "similar to the Casimir effect"? CE has been demonstrated for plates (mirrors) at this scale. I am speculating that the process also workes with organic material (e.g., neurons, microtubules) Google Hameroff, U of AZ, Quantum Consciousness



Great, but at this stage I can't envisage the process because there are far too many undefined terms. I agree . . . need some definitive R&D

Also, I am deeply suspicious of any theory that claims to explain everything (e.g. consciousness, evolution, life, mind, God etc.) A short post claiming you can explain all these things just smacks of crackpottery.
Aren't we all seeking the GUT and TOE?????

Is it just me . . . or are you calling me a crackpot? (tee hee!) That is WHY I POSTED THIS IN ALTERNATIVE THEORIES . . . actually it is NOT a Theory . . . . only an hypothesis . . . . Regards, James/wlminex
 
wlminex:

Please don't put stuff in quotes that people might mistake as being written by me rather than by you. Thanks.

1. What is an energetic pattern? eg pattern = repeatable structure

I know what a pattern is. I'm asking you how you can identify an "energetic pattern".

2. What is an emergent energetic pattern? emerging from a source

What's the source of a quantum energetic pattern?

3. What is a quantum emergent energetic pattern, and how does it differ from other types of emergent energetic patterns? matter of scale

You half-answered half the question. Want to try again. It's your theory, after all.

What would be an example of a non-quantum emergent energetic pattern? a tsunami

Sounds like a convoluted way to describe that.

4. By what mechanism(s) are energetic patterns imprinted within organic matter, and what is the nature of this imprinting? Something like the Casimir Effect

Something like the Casimir effect how?

For somebody who claims to have a theory, do you really have nothing better than wishy-washy one-phrase replies to these questions?

5. What is the evidence for imprinting? repeated organic (and possibly inorganic?) molecular patterns

In what? And how do you know they result from imprinting and not something else?

6. Why are only a limit variety of sequences formed? There are a 'limited' variety of nucleic acids comprising DNA, etc. 4, I think Which sequences, specifically, are they? Nucleic (DNA, RNA, etc). nucleic acids (e.g. adenisine, guanine, cytosine . . . and one other I can't think of

So, the limits in your theory are no different from normal chemistry.

7. Please explain the term "quantum energy/organic reaction". What is that? What, exactly is interacting with what? Quantum energy packets (waves?) are 'jiggling' (interacting, as in a detector) the components of organic matter

Which components? How is the jiggling done? What forces are involved?

8. Oh, and let's go back a step. Is "quantum energy" different from "organic energy"? Depends on YOUR deffinition of organic energy . . . I did not use that term. If so, how?

Sorry. My mistake.

9. What instrumentation would I need to detect "quantum energy"? Currrent rechnology (detectors) do not interact with the very high energy (high frequency, short wavelength) quantum energies . . . however, the Casimir Effect demonstrates quantum energy interactions at the 1 - 40 micron scale

What experiment do you suggest I could do to observe a quantum energy/organic reaction?

10. What instrumentation would I need to detect "organic energy"? That is YOUR term . . . not mine

Again, I apologise.

11. How did you establish the scale of the interaction to be "sub-micron"? And can you be any more specific than that? Do you have a lower bound? Extrapolating the high energy levels and frequencies of quantum energy packets, I am speculating that the quantum extends into submicron scales

Extrapolating from what, and on what grounds?

12. How is any of this "similar to the Casimir effect"? CE has been demonstrated for plates (mirrors) at this scale. I am speculating that the process also workes with organic material (e.g., neurons, microtubules) Google Hameroff, U of AZ, Quantum Consciousness

And what does it mean for science if the Casimir effect works with organic material? Why is this important?

Great, but at this stage I can't envisage the process because there are far too many undefined terms. I agree . . . need some definitive R&D

No. You need to define your terms, and you need something other than a flight of imagination in order to establish a scientific hypothesis. Nobody can do R&D on something that isn't properly defined.

Suppose I tell you that splurges will change the world. I have a theory of splurges: they are kind of like photons in delayed-choice experiment, in a way that I can't specify. I think that maybe splurges control your brain.

So, are you willing to help me with a little R&D on splurges, based on this? Does this sound like exciting and important new science to you?

Aren't we all seeking the GUT and TOE?????

No. Most people leave that to competent, trained, professional physicists.

Is it just me . . . or are you calling me a crackpot? (tee hee!) That is WHY I POSTED THIS IN ALTERNATIVE THEORIES . . . actually it is NOT a Theory . . . . only an hypothesis . . . .

It looks a lot to me like it's not even wrong (to quote Fermi).
 
James: Remember . . . you are discoursing with a "crackpot" whose out-of-the-box soliloquies (sp?) have little to do with mainstream physics. I'm simply tossing-out an alternative HYPOTHESIS (not a THEORY!). If you are further interested in what I hypothesize . . . do your own explorations.
 
My alternative theory . . . regarding life . . . and quantum reality

"Quantum emergent energetic patterns are imprinted within organic matter, especially forming a limited variety of repeating nucleic (e.g., DNA) molecular sequences. This occurs via a quantum energy/organic interaction, at micron and submicron scales, similar to the Casimir Effect."

This is the basic formational process. If you can envision this process, the door is opened to explain derivatives of the process, such as consciousness, evolution, life, mind, etc., and its precursors, such as God and spirituality.

Give it some thought . . . if you're not too preoccupied with living your life.
wlminex, you probably are describing the natural generation and evolution of life. I take that view because you reference "quantum emergent", which means to me, something having its beginnings in a natural origin at the foundational level, whether that is mechanically accomplished at the molecular, atomic, or sub atomic level.

Let's say I am right, and you are addressing the origin of the living molecule. I would agree that once life emerges and gains a foothold, that emergence opens out into all of the characteristics of living things from simple to complex.

I'll take up your request to "give it some thought" and offer these. Before life can emerge it needs a hospitable environment with the right chemicals and sources of energy for life to emerge. Also, the emergence, presumable characterized by the quantum nature of particles, would seem to me to be an iterative process. Given all the necessary elements and conditions, and given lengthy periods of time where those conditions are consistently present, eventually the living molecule combination of elements will emerge from one of the elemental combinations that appear in the iterations. By my definition anyway, it must reproduce itself in order to count as life.

Finding a foothold, and given adaptability, clearly it is possible for evolution to bring forth conscious, self aware, contemplative, intelligent beings; so I'll give you that.

Just how does the Casimir effect play into that emergence? Is it at the foundational level before life emerges, or is it instrumental in the emergence, or both? Explain.
 
wlminex:

James: Remember . . . you are discoursing with a "crackpot" whose out-of-the-box soliloquies (sp?) have little to do with mainstream physics.

Why talk about things like the Casimir effect, when you so obviously don't understand it?

I'm simply tossing-out an alternative HYPOTHESIS (not a THEORY!).

And why do you think anybody would want to listen to you? It's like you had a dream and randomly strung a few unrelated concepts together. It sounds like you're put about 2 minutes thought into your "hypothesis". It's just worthless garbage, isn't it? Why would anybody think otherwise? You have certainly given no reason.

James: Do a Google on 'Quantum effects on DNA' . . . .

Why would I want to do that?

I'm not going to do the work you should have done on your proposal. You tell me about the quantum effects on DNA, if you believe they are relevant.

If I want to research such a thing for myself at any stage, I will. But I'm not about to be sent off on a wild goose chase by you when you have given me nothing that makes me think it would be worth my while.
 
How simple it really is... Wait a second, I so don't think so.
 
QW's: "Just how does the Casimir effect play into that emergence? Is it at the foundational level before life emerges, or is it instrumental in the emergence, or both? Explain. "

QW, Thanks for your query . . . . . I'll try to explain . . . .

First, a couple of webpage references:

Casimir Effect (CE) is an experimentally-demonstrable 'effect'
(Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect.

Google "Hameroff+quantum soul"

I am speculating that the CE interacts with ANY material of the required scale (for CE to occur), that is . . . CE operates within ANY material - inorganic or organic. CE is speculated (by others, e.g, Hameroff, as well as myself) to interact with neurons and microtubles (i.e., organic) simply because the operating scale requirements (for CE to occur) are existent. According to this 'speculation', CE is the interaction (based soley on scale - not the type of material) . . . thus quantum-level (scale) energetic interactions are possible.

My 'stretch' on the above is that quantum patterns exist . . . and that quantum emergent patterns (ordered energetic patterns emerging from the quantum) are likely impressed on existing matter (of any type) at the quantum scale via CE (or CE-like mechanisms). Scale is the only required criterion.

Now for some other really "OOB stretches" . . . . The quantum is a milieu within which vast energies and complex patterns are extant. We cannot directly 'measure' this milieu, or its energetic or emergent qualities . . . but we can infer such from demonstrable CE experiments, etc.

Speculation #1: God or spirituality, if true, likely exist at the quantum level and are manifest as quantum-emergent patterns that are NOT directly detectible (in a 'mass-universe'), but may indirectly affect matter (both inorganic and organic) at quantum scales.

Speculation #2: Quantum emergent patterns are impressed (at micron and submicron, quantum scales) within ALL matter.

Speculation #3: Weak hydrogen bonds in nucleic macro-molecules (e.g., DNA, etc.) may be affected by quantum entanglements (pattern interactions) giving rise to an evolutionary (DNA-changing) mechanism.

Speculation #4 (You'll really like this one!): God's creation of life was initiated by a simple quantum interaction with organically-expanded 'clay' particles in which the thixotropic clay particles (charged plates) contained interstitial organic compounds (such as H-C-N-P). Emergent quantum patterns interacted with these organic constituents producing (desired?) proto-nucleic acid (i.e., DNA precursor) and ergo, an evolutionary mechanism.

"Dust thou art . . .to dust returneth was not written of the soul" (Ref: J. G. Whittaker, I think)
 
Last edited:
Nonsense. People don't understand quantum physics, and they want to use it to fill in all the gaps in our knowledge in other areas. If you want to hear this kind of thing all day long, just click here:
http://www.wisdomofchopra.com/

It's an automatic phrase generator using Deepak Chopra's most commonly used words.
 
Reply to James:
wlminex:

Please don't put stuff in quotes that people might mistake as being written by me rather than by you. Thanks. OK


I know what a pattern is. I'm asking you how you can identify an "energetic pattern". Repeating oscillations of particular frequency(s) e.g., wave packets


What's the source of a quantum energetic pattern? Underlying order from a yet undetermined source.


You half-answered half the question. Want to try again. It's your theory, after all. NOT a THEORY . . . an HYPOTHESIS


Sounds like a convoluted way to describe that.



Something like the Casimir effect how? Scale of matter spacing and packing is the only criterion to induce quantum interactions at particular frequencies/energy levels

For somebody who claims to have a theory, do you really have nothing better than wishy-washy one-phrase replies to these questions? NOPE . . .wishy-washy one-phrase replies work bestl for those who are intellectually challenged regarding noveau ideas.


In what? And how do you know they result from imprinting and not something else? Your guess is likely as good as mine . . . may be other mechanisms


So, the limits in your theory are no different from normal chemistry. Guess not . . . .or visa versa . . . .

Which components? How is the jiggling done? What forces are involved? ALL "detectors" constructed of matter detect/amplify signals by energetic interaction (jiggling) of the detecting media by the energetic source. BTW: Detectors work best when the detectble energies involved are of the same, or similar, magnitude/scale of the detecting media.



Sorry. My mistake.



What experiment do you suggest I could do to observe a quantum energy/organic reaction? First, repeat the Casimir Effect experiments to your satisfaction and then research Hameroff's (and others') hypotheses regarding quantum/organic interactions.


Again, I apologise.



Extrapolating from what, and on what grounds?



And what does it mean for science if the Casimir effect works with organic material? Why is this important? If CE works with organic material, we then have a mechanism for genesis of organic life and subsequenc evolutionary change . . . and a theological connection, If you are so inclined!

No. You need to define your terms, and you need something other than a flight of imagination in order to establish a scientific hypothesis. Nobody can do R&D on something that isn't properly defined. I agree . . . help me define the hypothetical construct with some mainstream physics and math!
Suppose I tell you that splurges will change the world. I have a theory of splurges: they are kind of like photons in delayed-choice experiment, in a way that I can't specify. I think that maybe splurges control your brain. Kind of like? Please define your terms more practically . . . I've not heard of this theory of 'splurges.

So, are you willing to help me with a little R&D on splurges, based on this? Does this sound like exciting and important new science to you? SURE! . . . I'll help you James . . . what kind of R&D do you have in mind? Give me some more reference materail on 'splurges'!

No. Most people leave that to competent, trained, professional physicists.



It looks a lot to me like it's not even wrong (to quote Fermi).
 
Nonsense. People don't understand quantum physics, and they want to use it to fill in all the gaps in our knowledge in other areas. If you want to hear this kind of thing all day long, just click here:
http://www.wisdomofchopra.com/

It's an automatic phrase generator using Deepak Chopra's most commonly used words.

SG: I hope you are not including yourself as the 'people' who don't understant quantum physics. Unfortunately, there do exist gaps in our knowledge that require filling.
 
Yes, I don't understand it either, but I know that it is probably not too involved in biology, apart from some clever things that plants do with photons.
 
QW's: "Just how does the Casimir effect play into that emergence? Is it at the foundational level before life emerges, or is it instrumental in the emergence, or both? Explain. "

QW, Thanks for your query . . . . . I'll try to explain . . . .

First, a couple of webpage references:

Casimir Effect (CE) is an experimentally-demonstrable 'effect'
(Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect.

Google "Hameroff+quantum soul"

I am speculating that the CE interacts with ANY material of the required scale (for CE to occur), that is . . . CE operates within ANY material - inorganic or organic. CE is speculated (by others, e.g, Hameroff, as well as myself) to interact with neurons and microtubles (i.e., organic) simply because the operating scale requirements (for CE to occur) are existent. According to this 'speculation', CE is the interaction (based soley on scale - not the type of material) . . . thus quantum-level (scale) energetic interactions are possible.

My 'stretch' on the above is that quantum patterns exist . . . and that quantum emergent patterns (ordered energetic patterns emerging from the quantum) are likely impressed on existing matter (of any type) at the quantum scale via CE (or CE-like mechanisms). Scale is the only required criterion.

Now for some other really "OOB stretches" . . . . The quantum is a milieu within which vast energies and complex patterns are extant. We cannot directly 'measure' this milieu, or its energetic or emergent qualities . . . but we can infer such from demonstrable CE experiments, etc.

Speculation #1: God or spirituality, if true, likely exist at the quantum level and are manifest as quantum-emergent patterns that are NOT directly detectible (in a 'mass-universe'), but may indirectly affect matter (both inorganic and organic) at quantum scales.

Speculation #2: Quantum emergent patterns are impressed (at micron and submicron, quantum scales) within ALL matter.

Speculation #3: Weak hydrogen bonds in nucleic macro-molecules (e.g., DNA, etc.) may be affected by quantum entanglements (pattern interactions) giving rise to an evolutionary (DNA-changing) mechanism.

Speculation #4 (You'll really like this one!): God's creation of life was initiated by a simple quantum interaction with organically-expanded 'clay' particles in which the thixotropic clay particles (charged plates) contained interstitial organic compounds (such as H-C-N-P). Emergent quantum patterns interacted with these organic constituents producing (desired?) proto-nucleic acid (i.e., DNA precursor) and ergo, an evolutionary mechanism.

"Dust thou art . . .to dust returneth was not written of the soul" (Ref: J. G. Whittaker, I think)
Thank you for taking us through those links and explanations. Personally my views are vastly different, but if you are convinced by the evidence and logic, then no one should expect you to change them.

But I suggest that you be more direct. To what extent do you invoke the Supernatural? If you remove the supernatural is there enough remaining science to make your case?
 
Thank you for taking us through those links and explanations. Personally my views are vastly different, but if you are convinced by the evidence and logic, then no one should expect you to change them.

But I suggest that you be more direct. To what extent do you invoke the Supernatural? If you remove the supernatural is there enough remaining science to make your case?

QW . . . . Ans to your last query: Yes! BTW: Alfred Wegner had a lot less science as a basis in conjuring/hypothesizing Continental Drift.

Invoking the 'Supernatural' (your term) is a consequence of my hypothesizing an underlying implicate "order" (or intelligence) . . . based on absolutely no 'science' . . . except . . . and I prefer to believe such is the case . . . God is a scientist.
 
Last edited:
QW . . . . Ans to your last query: Yes! BTW: Alfred Wegner had a lot less science as a basis in conjuring/hypothesizing Continental Drift.

Invoking the 'Supernatural' (your term) is a consequence of my hypothesizing an underlying implicate "order" (or intelligence) . . . based on absolutely no 'science' . . . except . . . and I prefer to believe such is the case . . . God is a scientist.
Well we all have our quirks, lol. Mine is that if the universe is infinite and eternal, and is governed by natural laws, then it is reasonable to expect that there are some natural laws we don't yet understand. Those could be attributed to God, but I also believe that the science and physics that we don't yet understand are still governed by natural law. If there is any intention, it is embedded in the natural law and has always existed; Eternal Intent.
 
QW: I agree. I too believe that the universe is infinite and eternal and operates via natural laws - into which are embedded emergent quantum energetic patterns. I like your Eternal Intent notion.
 
Back
Top