How much do we know about Jewish essenes
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DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
The Essene Brotherhood were Jews.
My ex-girlfriend would say it's impossible for Jesus to be one.
Jesus was a Christian. Duh.
My ex-girlfriend would say it's impossible for Jesus to be one.
Jesus was a Christian. Duh.
Well He was morn in Bethlehem and was circumcised. That makes Him a Jew from Galilee.
Do you know what life style ant teaching was practiced by the Essene ?
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Not if Wiki doesn't tell me...
Not if Wiki doesn't tell me...
so if wiki does not tell you then there is no evidence , wiki is the gospel , would you look into?
http://www.thenazareneway.com/index.htm
Jesus was a Jew, as were John the Baptist and the 12 Apostles. Christianity as a religion was invented by Paul.
It was not invented but coined and expanded .
Prior it was called the way , then it was coined as Nazarene and then it branched of into Christianity ?
So if some is interested there are scrolls of the Essene
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Nono. To be clear. I am simply saying I am wholly ignorant of Essenes. I only discovered the Jewish connection by wikiing it. I don't have any opinion at all.
The Essenes left society and went to live in the wilderness because they were dissatisfied with the contentious rivalries between groups like the Pharisees and Sadducees. They also wanted a more orthodox lifestyle. It does seem that some of the scorn for these Pharisees and Sadducees found in the New Testament could be coming from the Essenes' point of view. The place the Essenes settled, near the caves where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, shows that they dug quarries. Some of these were deep enough to fill with water which became bathhouses. Out of this they introduced a ritual bathing practice. These may be the people who "John the Baptist" refers to, if indeed he was ritually blessing bathers "in the wilderness". It also seems like this area could have served as a hideout from the Roman War of ca AD 69, and any Zealot (Jewish underground or guerilla fighters) who needed refuge probably could have sought it there or in the caves nearby.
There is of course no corroboration of the Jesus story by any eye witness. There is a mention of Jesus in a brief anecdote in the writings of Jewish chronicler Josephus, but this entry is not considered authentic, nor is it by any means objective, nor is it more than a passing remark.
It is striking that in the New Testament story the Jesus character is executed in the manner of a Zealot. Theirs was a suicide mission, so the way Jesus seems to martyr himself, with parallels to Socrates, also parallels the hopelessness of Zealots against the invincible Romans with their inexhaustible legions and armadas. Zealotry was suicide, and the crucifixion of Jesus may merely symbolize the crushing defeat of the Zealots by the Romans and the destruction of the temple (such as seems to occur by natural forces at the moment of his death).
It's all speculation. There's really not a shred of evidence about what actually happened to this man if he did indeed exist, or whether someone was trying to put together a Jewish version of Socrates, the benign Greek teacher who had his own disciples, and his own ecclesia (which has come to mean "church") . This Jewish Socrates is followed by the twelve tribes of Israel to a path of perfection that could no longer be offered under the old schema, since the Romans destroyed their temple. This modern idea we have of a Christian "church" may be merely the result of an ancient writer's play on words, since the ecclesias of Greece were also something like a union, in which members had the right to vote. The Ecclesia of Iesous (church of Jesus) may have represented the political will to organize against violence and to teach disciples (followers of the union) that resistance against Rome is suicide. Thus: "turn the other cheek".
It seems plausible that Zealots broke bread together and planned their strikes. "Ecclesia" could simply mean an assembly of Zealots. The Pentacost, when they were "assembled" in the upper room of a house, may have some symbolic connection to the end of the war, and their behavior, "speaking in tongues", could reference an underground language, or perhaps an emotionally charged meeting, reflecting on their losses and their uncertain future. For some reason the writer felt it necessary to mention they were in the upper room of the house. This reminds me of the Diary of Anne Frank. They may have been hiding in the attic.
Like I say, it's all speculation.
If I had any reason to believe the story was more than a mixed up set of legends and fables, I would even wonder if Jesus symbolizes an Essene who returns to Jerusalem to fight with the Zealots, but is sold out by a paid snitch and then publicly tortured and executed in the manner that sends a convincing message that resistance is futile.
References to a savior or salvation make no sense in the continuity between Old and New Testaments, but the Jewish people certainly needed a savior from Roman oppression. How or why this character is associated with the Greek word for "anointed one" - Christos - is lost. If he was an actual leader of the Zealots, he may have been "anointed" in a resistance meeting, or at the deathbed of the previous leader.
Another set of stories about Jesus arose, possibly before the first Gospel was written. These were the Gnostic gospels, which dote on Jesus, but rail against the Creator God, who the Gnostics equate with the forces of Hell. In fact, Christianity appears to be a reaction to Gnosticism, possibly by Jews who could not tolerate their extreme views, so perhaps that is exactly why they invented this story.
There is of course no corroboration of the Jesus story by any eye witness. There is a mention of Jesus in a brief anecdote in the writings of Jewish chronicler Josephus, but this entry is not considered authentic, nor is it by any means objective, nor is it more than a passing remark.
It is striking that in the New Testament story the Jesus character is executed in the manner of a Zealot. Theirs was a suicide mission, so the way Jesus seems to martyr himself, with parallels to Socrates, also parallels the hopelessness of Zealots against the invincible Romans with their inexhaustible legions and armadas. Zealotry was suicide, and the crucifixion of Jesus may merely symbolize the crushing defeat of the Zealots by the Romans and the destruction of the temple (such as seems to occur by natural forces at the moment of his death).
It's all speculation. There's really not a shred of evidence about what actually happened to this man if he did indeed exist, or whether someone was trying to put together a Jewish version of Socrates, the benign Greek teacher who had his own disciples, and his own ecclesia (which has come to mean "church") . This Jewish Socrates is followed by the twelve tribes of Israel to a path of perfection that could no longer be offered under the old schema, since the Romans destroyed their temple. This modern idea we have of a Christian "church" may be merely the result of an ancient writer's play on words, since the ecclesias of Greece were also something like a union, in which members had the right to vote. The Ecclesia of Iesous (church of Jesus) may have represented the political will to organize against violence and to teach disciples (followers of the union) that resistance against Rome is suicide. Thus: "turn the other cheek".
It seems plausible that Zealots broke bread together and planned their strikes. "Ecclesia" could simply mean an assembly of Zealots. The Pentacost, when they were "assembled" in the upper room of a house, may have some symbolic connection to the end of the war, and their behavior, "speaking in tongues", could reference an underground language, or perhaps an emotionally charged meeting, reflecting on their losses and their uncertain future. For some reason the writer felt it necessary to mention they were in the upper room of the house. This reminds me of the Diary of Anne Frank. They may have been hiding in the attic.
Like I say, it's all speculation.
If I had any reason to believe the story was more than a mixed up set of legends and fables, I would even wonder if Jesus symbolizes an Essene who returns to Jerusalem to fight with the Zealots, but is sold out by a paid snitch and then publicly tortured and executed in the manner that sends a convincing message that resistance is futile.
References to a savior or salvation make no sense in the continuity between Old and New Testaments, but the Jewish people certainly needed a savior from Roman oppression. How or why this character is associated with the Greek word for "anointed one" - Christos - is lost. If he was an actual leader of the Zealots, he may have been "anointed" in a resistance meeting, or at the deathbed of the previous leader.
Another set of stories about Jesus arose, possibly before the first Gospel was written. These were the Gnostic gospels, which dote on Jesus, but rail against the Creator God, who the Gnostics equate with the forces of Hell. In fact, Christianity appears to be a reaction to Gnosticism, possibly by Jews who could not tolerate their extreme views, so perhaps that is exactly why they invented this story.
Is this your writing or you have copied ?
I can see a lot if falls but before you answer my question
The Dead Sea Scrolls of Qumran are housed in the Shrine Of The Book wing of the Israel Museum in Jerusalem (Givat Ram). Sections of the Essene scrolls are on public display for 3 months and then rotated to feature another section. The circular display case in the rotunda can be quickly lowered deep underground to secure the scrolls from harm.
It is my writing. There isn't much I said that can be disputed since most of what I posted was mere speculation. Your guess is as good as mine. No one, not a single person, left a credible first hand narrative of this superhuman, who, had he lived today, would have been the daily headline is all the news outlets. Similar stories of healers, prophets and miracle workers occasionally surfaced but they just never survived antiquity the way this one did.
Some of what you see in my post is drawn from reading Josephus and Eusebius and a few modern folks, but I have given a highly speculative explanation which is, interestingly, just as valid as the New Testament itself.
Your OP raises a good point, because the Essenes appear to be the first baptizers. The word is Greek, which is odd for a religious ritual. So many words (Christos is another) carry a purely Greek flavor. Why wasn't Aramaic preserved as the language of Christianity? This movement almost seems to have been born in transit. Were the earliest Christians really just Zealots on the run? Qumrun seems so desolate; they may have holed up there (literally) but it wouldn't seem a likely place to settle. The way Christianity spread rapidly in neighboring lands almost suggests they were forced to flee. Otherwise, we would have expected Judea (the Roman colony Iudaea, that is) to become the headquarters of the Christian movement.
Perhaps Qumrum was that headquarters, very briefly.
*************
M*W: If Jesus had existed, he would have been a Jew and not a Christian.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Ya think?
There weren't any Christians during the lifetime of Jesus, only various Jewish sects (or pagans). Christianity became a separate religion after his death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity
from the second reference:
Christianity began as a Jewish sect in the mid-1st century.[6][7] Originating in the eastern Mediterranean coast of the Middle East (modern Israel and Palestine), it quickly spread to Syria, Mesopotamia, Asia Minor and Egypt. It grew in size and influence over a few decades, and by the 4th century had become the dominant religion within the Roman Empire.[8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity
from the second reference:
Christianity began as a Jewish sect in the mid-1st century.[6][7] Originating in the eastern Mediterranean coast of the Middle East (modern Israel and Palestine), it quickly spread to Syria, Mesopotamia, Asia Minor and Egypt. It grew in size and influence over a few decades, and by the 4th century had become the dominant religion within the Roman Empire.[8]