How many Christians actually live it (like Jesus, Paul, etc.)?

[NDS]

I would guess about 15%. It seems like most people who call themselves Christians don't ever go to church and basically do whatever they want. That's just my opinion based on the people I've seen.

 

[CutsieMarie89]

Living under all of the Bibles conditions is hard and inconvient. I think most Christians pick and choose what they want to follow and what they don't.

 

[Orleander]

I would guess about 15%. It seems like most people who call themselves Christians don't ever go to church and basically do whatever they want. That's just my opinion based on the people I've seen.

I don't think being a good christian has anything to do with church. Its just a building where you meet and listen to a sermon.

 

[Leo Volont]

F____ng retarded Atheists!

Look at the Title.

Live it like Jesus or Paul...

What is that supposed to mean?

Jesus Preached Righteousness. Consult the Sermon of the Mount.

Paul preached abolition of Law and Forgiveness of Sin. Salvation is basically the suspension of all moral principles. if you can get into Heaven despite any sin, than Righteousness is no longer necessary. Indeed, Paul went so far as to preach that those who strove for Righteousness were REJECTING FAITH and trying to earn their way into Heaven, thus deserving Hell.

Honestly, if you know nothing -- ABSOLUTELY NOTHING -- about what you are pretending to criticize... if you have NOTHING to contribute... why don't you just READ UP, or SHUT UP.

 

[NDS]

Leo, first off it's the "sermon ON the mount." Not "sermon OF the mount." Remember, mounts generally can't speak.

Secondly, the claim you made below is...well... outright wrong.

Indeed, Paul went so far as to preach that those who strove for Righteousness were REJECTING FAITH and trying to earn their way into Heaven, thus deserving Hell.

Here's what Paul himself says in Timothy Chapter 2 verse 22:

"Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart."

And you claim that only Paul teached abolition of the Law. Not even close. Jesus is the one who abolished the Jewish laws, including the law of the sabbath, and claimed, just like Paul, and that faith and righteousness was better than laws.

 

[Lori_7]

I would guess about 15%. It seems like most people who call themselves Christians don't ever go to church and basically do whatever they want. That's just my opinion based on the people I've seen.

i think i have the same answer, but the opposite meaning. the way i see it, there are tons of people who go to church, but a very few who actually live it 24/7. in my opinion, it has nothing to do with "going" to church. it has to do with "being" the church, hence my sig. there is a vast difference between the two activities. well, the former is an activity, and the latter a way of life that transends any and all activities. it's a faith, based upon knowledge that comes from experience. not the experience of sitting in a pew listening to a preacher, and not the experience of reading the bible, but of living every day of your life, and then relating that to the word of God, found in the Bible, and in the mouths of witnesses, and in your head, as you hear the voice of your shepherd speak to you personally. christianity is much deeper than a religion.

 

[Norsefire]

Living under all of the Bibles conditions is hard and inconvient. I think most Christians pick and choose what they want to follow and what they don't.

Then they aren't Christians. This isn't some restaurant where you pick what you want, religion is religion. You either follow that religion, or you aren't that religion. Simple.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Leo, first off it's the "sermon ON the mount." Not "sermon OF the mount." Remember, mounts generally can't speak.

Secondly, the claim you made below is...well... outright wrong.




Here's what Paul himself says in Timothy Chapter 2 verse 22:

"Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart."

Hmmm. Sounds like you're the one who needs to read up or shut up.

And you claim that only Paul teached abolition of the Law. Not even close. Jesus is the one who abolished the Jewish laws, including the law of the sabbath, and claimed, just like Paul, and that faith and righteousness was better than laws. Get your shit together, Leo.

As far as I can tell, Jesus taught both that Salvation is by faith and also by keeping the Law. The Bible accounts, concerning Him, teach both ways of salvation. There are clear examples of each.

Paul also taught that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone (is by unmerited favor) and also that salvation is by works (is merited) and so is not by grace after all.

I can't even count how many times I have heard both of these contradictions taught in the very same sermon. It is common.

This is, incidentally, why there is such a great division in the worldwide Church over such a basic and critical tenant of the faith. Historically, Christians have even been willing to kill each other over the confusion that is taught in the Bible on this topic. If God wrote the Bible then He is clearly the author of all of this confusion Himself. If men wrote it then perhaps only those men can be blamed for it instead.

Why would anyone want to attribute the confusion, contradictions, and all of the evil that takes place in the Bible, to God?

 

[nietzschefan]

Some good ones from "The Man" on this subject:

Change of Cast. -- As soon as a religion comes to dominate it has as its opponents all those who would have been its first disciples.

from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.118, R.J. Hollingdale transl

The first Christian. All the world still believes in the authorship of the "Holy Spirit" or is at least still affected by this belief: when one opens the Bible one does so for "edification."... That it also tells the story of one of the most ambitious and obtrusive of souls, of a head as superstitious as it was crafty, the story of the apostle Paul--who knows this , except a few scholars? Without this strange story, however, without the confusions and storms of such a head, such a soul, there would be no Christianity...
That the ship of Christianity threw overboard a good deal of its Jewish ballast, that it went, and was able to go, among the pagans--that was due to this one man, a very tortured, very pitiful, very unpleasant man, unpleasant even to himself. He suffered from a fixed idea--or more precisely, from a fixed, ever-present, never-resting question: what about the Jewish law? and particularly the fulfillment of this law? In his youth he had himself wanted to satisfy it, with a ravenous hunger for this highest distinction which the Jews could conceive - this people who were propelled higher than any other people by the imagination of the ethically sublime, and who alone succeeded in creating a holy god together with the idea of sin as a transgression against this holiness. Paul became the fanatical defender of this god and his law and guardian of his honor; at the same time, in the struggle against the transgressors and doubters, lying in wait for them, he became increasingly harsh and evilly disposed towards them, and inclined towards the most extreme punishments. And now he found that--hot-headed, sensual, melancholy, malignant in his hatred as he was-- he was himself unable to fulfill the law; indeed, and this seemed strangest to him, his extravagant lust to domineer provoked him continually to transgress the law, and he had to yield to this thorn.
Is it really his "carnal nature" that makes him transgress again and again? And not rather, as he himself suspected later, behind it the law itself, which must constantly prove itself unfulfillable and which lures him to transgression with irresistable charm? But at that time he did not yet have this way out. He had much on his conscience - he hints at hostility, murder, magic, idolatry, lewdness, drunkenness, and pleasure in dissolute carousing - and... moments came when he said to himself:"It is all in vain; the torture of the unfulfilled law cannot be overcome."... The law was the cross to which he felt himself nailed: how he hated it! how he searched for some means to annihilate it--not to fulfill it any more himself!
And finally the saving thought struck him,... "It is unreasonable to persecute this Jesus! Here after all is the way out; here is the perfect revenge; here and nowhere else I have and hold the annihilator of the law!"... Until then the ignominious death had seemed to him the chief argument against the Messianic claim of which the new doctrine spoke: but what if it were necessary to get rid of the law?
The tremendous consequences of this idea, of this solution of the riddle, spin before his eyes; at one stroke he becomes the happiest man; the destiny of the Jews--no, of all men--seems to him to be tied to this idea, to this second of its sudden illumination; he has the thought of thoughts, the key of keys, the light of lights; it is around him that all history must revolve henceforth. For he is from now on the teacher of the annihilation of the law...
This is the first Christian, the inventor of Christianity. Until then there were only a few Jewish sectarians.

 

[NDS]

As far as I can tell, Jesus taught both that Salvation is by faith and also by keeping the Law. The Bible accounts, concerning Him, teach both ways of salvation. There are clear examples of each.

Paul also taught that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone (is by unmerited favor) and also that salvation is by works (is merited) and so is not by grace after all.

I can't even count how many times I have heard both of these contradictions taught in the very same sermon. It is common.

This is, incidentally, why there is such a great division in the worldwide Church over such a basic and critical tenant of the faith. Historically, Christians have even been willing to kill each other over the confusion that is taught in the Bible on this topic. If God wrote the Bible then He is clearly the author of all of this confusion Himself. If men wrote it then perhaps only those men can be blamed for it instead.

Why would anyone want to attribute the confusion, contradictions, and all of the evil that takes place in the Bible, to God?

I see what you saying. In either case, the Bible, like many other ancient texts, is very vague and makes general statements like "Be the salt of the earth and the light of the earth" and "if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out."

Instead of talking in odd metaphors, a more efficient way of delivering your word (God's word) would be to write out 10 or 20 of the most important basic fundamentals of reality (how do we serve God, what does God want, is there a God, etc.) in a simple format. I don't get the need for the stories and the parablea and everything else., That especially applies to the OT where there are thousands of wasted words and meaningless stories which help us ZERO.

But again, in the poll when I ask "how many people who claim to be christians actually live it (like Jesus, Paul), I'm talking about the basics:

- live poor, if you're wealthy give it all away because you should view wealth as a threat to your salvation (camel through a pinhead)

- love everyone, even your enemies, and treat one another with respect

- don't sin or do things God forbids (murder, etc.)

- don't be anxious or worry about material things (clothes, money, etc.)
- don't divorce
- etc.


These are the principles I'm talking about. Most "Christians" worry all the time about money, clothes, how they look to other people, etc. Most "Christians" don't love everyone, and talk about people behind their backs (or right to their face) with something mean to say. Most "Christians" never think about God or Jesus at all during the day except the rare moments when they either pray or if the name "Jesus" is mentioned.


Notice how "Christians" is in quotes, meaning not true Christians. To me, a true Christian, one who lives it, is one who lives like Jesus and Paul did, such as by the principles mentioned above. I'm not saying its easy to live that way, nor am I saying I live that way (I don't), nor am I saying that God really does require all of that from us (assuming he exists).

It's true though, if Jesus lived in a capatalist society today and somehow became a wealthy billionaire, who here would deny that he would give away every last penny of that money (besides bare minimum) to the poor? You can't deny it, because he would do that. So, how many Christians really live by the phrase, "What Would Jesus Do?" Very few.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

I see what you saying. In either case, the Bible, like many other ancient texts, is very vague and makes general statements like "Be the salt of the earth and the light of the earth" and "if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out."

Instead of talking in odd metaphors, a more efficient way of delivering your word (God's word) would be to write out 10 or 20 of the most important basic fundamentals of reality (how do we serve God, what does God want, is there a God, etc.) in a simple format. I don't get the need for the stories and the parablea and everything else., That especially applies to the OT where there are thousands of wasted words and meaningless stories which help us ZERO.

But again, in the poll when I ask "how many people who claim to be christians actually live it (like Jesus, Paul), I'm talking about the basics:

- live poor, if you're wealthy give it all away because you should view wealth as a threat to your salvation (camel through a pinhead)

- love everyone, even your enemies, and treat one another with respect

- don't sin or do things God forbids (murder, etc.)

- don't be anxious or worry about material things (clothes, money, etc.)
- don't divorce
- etc.


These are the principles I'm talking about. Most "Christians" worry all the time about money, clothes, how they look to other people, etc. Most "Christians" don't love everyone, and talk about people behind their backs (or right to their face) with something mean to say. Most "Christians" never think about God or Jesus at all during the day except the rare moments when they either pray or if the name "Jesus" is mentioned.


Notice how "Christians" is in quotes, meaning not true Christians. To me, a true Christian, one who lives it, is one who lives like Jesus and Paul did, such as by the principles mentioned above. I'm not saying its easy to live that way, nor am I saying I live that way (I don't), nor am I saying that God really does require all of that from us (assuming he exists).

It's true though, if Jesus lived in a capatalist society today and somehow became a wealthy billionaire, who here would deny that he would give away every last penny of that money (besides bare minimum) to the poor? You can't deny it, because he would do that. So, how many Christians really live by the phrase, "What Would Jesus Do?" Very few.

Well, according to the Bible itself, there are none that actually do this, only pretenders. Certainly not Paul, even though he claimed in his arrogance to have kept the Law perfectly, and dare I say it, not even Jesus apparently lived a perfect life.

Even right now, Jesus is supposed to have all of the wealth and resources in the entire universe at His command, and yet He refuses to personally give one cent, even the most basic necessities of food and shelter to thousands of children on this earth. They die penniless every single day by the hundreds and thousands. Does this help them see the love of God or does this cause them to feel cursed and hated by God? I think they feel helpless, hopeless, and abandoned as they die.

Jesus surely does not then live by His very own stated concepts of morality, does He?

I wish it were not so but that is how it appears to me.