How long do you have to beleive in God?

[moementum7]

If and when God comes down on Judgement day, well, obviously I will beleive in him when I see him. Finally, heres proof of his existence.There he is.

Will I be allowed to go to heaven if I only beleive in him this late in the game, on judgement day?
Or is there a certain minimum time limit that you have to absolutely have faith in him to get a good seat?

 

[Tiassa]

(Insert Title Here)

Not according to my understanding of Abramic monotheism. Once you have proof of God, it's not faith, and without faith ... (fill in the blank).

The trick seems to be that once someone has genuine faith, they cannot be shaken from it. Not so much as you or I might have occasion to shake the tree, but God, who allegedly knows the hearts of humankind (and all other theological conundra arising therefrom notwithstanding) will know that faith when He sees it. Of the wisdom attributed to God, He will know the difference between fanaticism and faith.

 

[moementum7]

That always throws me for a loop.
That once you have proof, you can't have faith.
You know what I haven't had in a while,......Big League Chew.

 

[§outh§tar]

Until he comes. Even the nanosecond before his arrival "counts".

 

[eddymrsci]

yeah that's what I thought about religion, it urges you to BELIEVE in something that you don't necessary KNOW is there, but you gotta have enough faith to keep your belief, and that's religion

 

[jcarl]

no-two reasons

-1) salvation can come only come while in this life. If this weren't the case, then everyone from Nero to Pol Pot would be chillin in Heaven.

-2) I'm making an assumption here, but if someone were to be believe in God only at Judgement day, then its probable that they only believed that God existed, not in Him, the difference being acknowledging His existence, which even the demons do( James 2:19), and submitting and relying on Him. Although the second requires the first, God seeks to build a relationship with us, since He isn't just some cold, distant spirit out in somewhere.

 

[Katazia]

jcarl,

And what of the many primitive natives throughout the centuries who never heard of Christianity and hence never had a chance to choose him or not?

And what of the many millions who died before Jesus is alleged to have arrived and of course never had a chance to ask for forgiveness.

And what of the primitive cavemen who were human like us yet had not developed the concept of gods?

Surely if the Christian God is just and fair then everyone would be judged based on their inner soul rather than any words or deeds they said or performed while alive.

But then if everyone is judged fairly on that basis and even those who had never heard of Jesus then the visit of Jesus and his death would be irrelevant, right?

Kat

 

[§outh§tar]

jcarl,

And what of the many primitive natives throughout the centuries who never heard of Christianity and hence never had a chance to choose him or not?

And what of the many millions who died before Jesus is alleged to have arrived and of course never had a chance to ask for forgiveness.

And what of the primitive cavemen who were human like us yet had not developed the concept of gods?

Surely if the Christian God is just and fair then everyone would be judged based on their inner soul rather than any words or deeds they said or performed while alive.

But then if everyone is judged fairly on that basis and even those who had never heard of Jesus then the visit of Jesus and his death would be irrelevant, right?

Kat

I keep hearing this question being asked repeatedly on here..



God DOES NOT owe humankind any obligation whatsoever to "save" them from our own self-inflicted destruction.

 

[invert_nexus]

So now, in this discussion, all those who never had the chance to accept your god are damned? In a previous discussion those who believed without proof were merely shown more grace. So how about those who believe and then are given proof of god?

God DOES NOT owe humankind any obligation whatsoever to "save" them from our own self-inflicted destruction.

If God made all humans and placed them in an environment where it's not possible for them to even know your religion exists then who's responsible? Who owes who an obligation?

 

[Tiassa]

So now, in this discussion, all those who never had the chance to accept your god are damned?

Depends on the religion. Christianity, most likely. Islam, not necessarily or, as I understand it, not likely. Hinduism doesn't work that way, but that's a rough understanding, and Buddhism doesn't worry about such things. Witchcraft largely doesn't ask the question--at the time I studied the Craft I simply left it with an every-deity-every-afterlife consideration; the afterlife was either an infantile notion or a deeper mystery. I chose the latter, so it became irrelevant.

The thing is that damnation and redemption are fairly ... primitive concepts, born of fear. For some religions, the state of grace seems to be something attained, and not awarded.

 

[§outh§tar]

So now, in this discussion, all those who never had the chance to accept your god are damned? In a previous discussion those who believed without proof were merely shown more grace. So how about those who believe and then are given proof of god?



If God made all humans and placed them in an environment where it's not possible for them to even know your religion exists then who's responsible? Who owes who an obligation?

He gave you and I everything we need to be "successful" on this planet. That is why God is omniscient..

 

[invert_nexus]

He gave you and I everything we need to be "successful" on this planet. That is why God is omniscient..

I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the ancient Maya, or the pygmies in the rain forest. Or all the nameless monkey men that lived and died in obscurity before the rise of your religion. Or how about all those who follow after your religion is gone and forgotten? God, if he exists, put them there, in that place, at that time. Are they just supposed to know somehow that your god is THE god? If this is the case, they'd have to be omniscient, not god.

 

[Adstar]

invert_nexus

Whatever happens to those people will be the will of God. I am sure His decision on them will be right. Anyway the people in here who have received the message of Jesus and rejected it will not have any excuse.


moementum7

From scripture events will occur before the coming of the Messiah. One of them will be a man known as the beast/ Anti-christ. He will claim to be God and require all men to worship Him and His image all those who refuse will be beheaded. So by the time the Messiah returns the vast majority of the worlds population will be worshiping who they think is God but who is not God. It is possible that a moment before the Messiahs return someone will believe in Him and be saved. But after no way.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[§outh§tar]

I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the ancient Maya, or the pygmies in the rain forest. Or all the nameless monkey men that lived and died in obscurity before the rise of your religion. Or how about all those who follow after your religion is gone and forgotten? God, if he exists, put them there, in that place, at that time. Are they just supposed to know somehow that your god is THE god? If this is the case, they'd have to be omniscient, not god.

By you and me, I meant mankind. Each and every person.

 

[invert_nexus]

Whatever happens to those people will be the will of God. I am sure His decision on them will be right.

The old will of god answer. I'm sure his decision will be the right one too. How could it not be if he decides what is right and wrong?

By you and me, I meant mankind. Each and every person.

So, before Abraham made his household god into the god of a nation and then to god of everybody, all those people who had no knowledge of any of this were in the know? They all knew that they should be circumsized? They all knew that they should preserve their bodies for judgement day? They all knew that god was a jealous god and would suffer no other gods besides him? They all knew all about all the various rules and regulations laid down by god (which most christians don't follow, btw). How did they know? Omniscience? Clairvoyance? Witchcraft?

I say they didn't know. I say that there are people on this earth today who don't know. I say there will be people in the future that won't know. If god gave them this knowledge what happened to it? Where did it go? How could it be anything like the bible since these cultures had absolutely nothing in common with the cultures in the bible?

This is why Islam is growing today. The culture represented by the bible is not the culture of the majority of the population of the world. In fact, it wasn't even the culture of the early Europeans, until they changed it to fit their culture. Unfortuately, it's now called heresy to attempt to bring the religion into a context that different cultures can accept. They just have to accept the western view or go to hell. Nice.

 

[Rappaccini]

Whatever happens to those people will be the will of God. I am sure His decision on them will be right.

That's not even a real response.

Anyway the people in here who have received the message of Jesus and rejected it will not have any excuse.

From what I've read, your God just plain sucks.

That's my excuse.

God, I didn't worship you, 'cause you're an a** hole.

 

[Jenyar]

There are a few errors in thinking here. The emphasis on proof is flawed, because you are asking for physical proof - as if that's the only kind of proof their is. Do you think Christians believe in God without proof? We consider the testimony of the Spirit to be proof. We consider God's involvement in history and in our lives to be proof. Our lives themselves are proof. Faith is in things unseen, not things unknown. Visible proof decays like everything else, and what you are convinced of today, you'll have a hard time convincing your children tomorrow if they don't trust you.

Acts 17:31 "For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."​

As with any living being, knowledge does not come in an instant. Especially if you have rejected it most of your life. If you have lived according to God's principles all your life, it might take only a glimpse to recognize Him - and He might recognize you as an exile of faith. Noah wasn't a Jew, Jesus wasn't a Christian, Paul wasn't a Muslim. But rejection is something different.

James 5 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.​

Even certain knowledge or evidence of God cannot undo what you have done in your life. It sticks to you even in your faith, and until you have confessed your sins to the God who forgives them, you are sharing their fate.

Death seals your life like a contract. After that, nothing can be added or amended. But why wait that long?? There is only one solution: being dead already.

 

[Truth51]

If and when God comes down on Judgement day, well, obviously I will beleive in him when I see him. Finally, heres proof of his existence.There he is.

Will I be allowed to go to heaven if I only beleive in him this late in the game, on judgement day?
Or is there a certain minimum time limit that you have to absolutely have faith in him to get a good seat?

You could accept Christ in your deathbed and go to heaven. If you deliberately waited until then to accept Him and didn't really mean it so you didnt have to pray, go to church, etc. I don't think it would happen. But otherwise there's no minimum.

Yours in Christ,

Kevin

 

[Truth51]

jcarl,

And what of the many primitive natives throughout the centuries who never heard of Christianity and hence never had a chance to choose him or not?

And what of the many millions who died before Jesus is alleged to have arrived and of course never had a chance to ask for forgiveness.

And what of the primitive cavemen who were human like us yet had not developed the concept of gods?

Surely if the Christian God is just and fair then everyone would be judged based on their inner soul rather than any words or deeds they said or performed while alive.

But then if everyone is judged fairly on that basis and even those who had never heard of Jesus then the visit of Jesus and his death would be irrelevant, right?

Kat

They are judged based on what they did know of him. Remember that God is completely just and does not show favoritism. Furthermore, Jesus' death provided coverage to all sin, past, present and future, should we repent.

Yours in Christ,

Kevin

 

[Adstar]

Hi Nexus

The old will of god answer. I'm sure his decision will be the right one too. How could it not be if he decides what is right and wrong?

I don't know if you where being serious or sarcastic with that reply but yes you are absolutely correct. The God of Abraham does decide what is right and what is wrong

All Praise The Ancient Of Days