How do I trust God if I read these stories!

T

taoist11

Registered Senior Member
In the book Argument Methods of Eloquence by Trieu Truyen Dong (China), there are several stories to prove that this world is atheistic. I would like to tell them here:

1. Michelangelo was an Italian famous artist in the Renaissance. He accepted the Roman Church to draw an oil painting of Adam and Eva, and he asked:
“Did Adam have a navel?”
According to the Bible, God sculptured Adam following his figure and withdraw Adam a rib to create Eva. This first couple gave birth to mass mankind nowaday. Adam was the first person and was most perfect. Everyone has a navel, so does Adam. But Adam was the figure of God. Adam has a navel, therefore God has a navel. God is the supreme creator, why is he created and given birth by others ? If God doesn’t have a navel but Adam had, this mean God didn’t sculpture Adam like him. This is against the Bible. If the navel of Adam is a mistake of God in creating, this is against the Church because God never makes any mistake. If Adam didn’t have a navel, then everyone of us has but Adam didn’t. Thus, the creation of God was not perfect, and Adam was not perfect. In conclusion, Adam had a navel or not, both make the Church contradictory.

2. One day, a believer went to the church. He said:”Father, I believe in God, but I don’t know if God can help me?”
The vicar answered calmly:”God is almighty. God can help you what you wish. All you need is to pray.”
The believer was worried, saying:”My neighbour also trust in God. And if I pray God for raining, he will pray God for stopping raining. How does God decide ?”
The vicar: “…”

3. European scholastic philosophers said God was almighty, and the world was created by God. About this point, Cao ni lo asked:”Can God create astone which he can not lift ?” With this question, scholastic philosophers surrendered. If answering that God can create a stone which he can not life, then there will be a stone that he can not lift. And thus God is not almighty. If answering that God can not create a stone that he can not lift, then there will be a stone that he can not create. And therefore God is not almighty. Both ways, God is not almighty. Nearly one thousand years have passed, this question still has deep impression into theologians’ minds, and they haven’t had the answer.
4. Clothes have no souls, so all souls are naked. Jesus is also a soul & he ...! Angels are souls, & naked. I may say that if we met angels, we would see them naked.

For you, the theistic, please teach me that how do I trust God ? Thanks a lot
 
taoist11 said:
In the book Argument Methods of Eloquence by Trieu Truyen Dong (China), there are several stories to prove that this world is atheistic. I would like to tell them here:

1. Michelangelo was an Italian famous artist in the Renaissance. He accepted the Roman Church to draw an oil painting of Adam and Eva, and he asked:
“Did Adam have a navel?”
According to the Bible, God sculptured Adam following his figure and withdraw Adam a rib to create Eva. This first couple gave birth to mass mankind nowaday. Adam was the first person and was most perfect. Everyone has a navel, so does Adam. But Adam was the figure of God. Adam has a navel, therefore God has a navel. God is the supreme creator, why is he created and given birth by others ? If God doesn’t have a navel but Adam had, this mean God didn’t sculpture Adam like him. This is against the Bible. If the navel of Adam is a mistake of God in creating, this is against the Church because God never makes any mistake. If Adam didn’t have a navel, then everyone of us has but Adam didn’t. Thus, the creation of God was not perfect, and Adam was not perfect. In conclusion, Adam had a navel or not, both make the Church contradictory.
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Michangelo is an artist and artist tend not to take the rationale approach, not to mention the times were not particularly rationale. Judging rationality base on an artist impression will not lead to many meaningful conclusions in the rationale arena.

2. One day, a believer went to the church. He said:”Father, I believe in God, but I don’t know if God can help me?”
The vicar answered calmly:”God is almighty. God can help you what you wish. All you need is to pray.”
The believer was worried, saying:”My neighbour also trust in God. And if I pray God for raining, he will pray God for stopping raining. How does God decide ?”
The vicar: “…”
Click to expand...

Will is the determining factor for God assisting man.
That means God isn't a magic lamp (at least not the Christian perspective) According to scripture he has a purpose which is highlighted in Revelations.

3. European scholastic philosophers said God was almighty, and the world was created by God. About this point, Cao ni lo asked:”Can God create astone which he can not lift ?” With this question, scholastic philosophers surrendered. If answering that God can create a stone which he can not life, then there will be a stone that he can not lift. And thus God is not almighty. If answering that God can not create a stone that he can not lift, then there will be a stone that he can not create. And therefore God is not almighty. Both ways, God is not almighty. Nearly one thousand years have passed, this question still has deep impression into theologians’ minds, and they haven’t had the answer.
Click to expand...

European scholastic are wrong. The Bible specifically says that God is all powerful but he still has limits. Fore example the bible says it is impossible for God to tell a lie or commit evil. More over God is not a physical entity but a spiritual entity that predates all of creation and time and apparently he is his own environment with no physical links or limitations/requirements. Therefore everything physical is inherently inferior.

4. Clothes have no souls, so all souls are naked. Jesus is also a soul & he ...! Angels are souls, & naked. I may say that if we met angels, we would see them naked.
Click to expand...

Angels are described as spirits with no physical form.
According to the bible they have taken physical form. In Revelations some are described as having Robes but likely in a metaphorical way.
 
taoist11 said:
In the book Argument Methods of Eloquence by Trieu Truyen Dong (China), there are several stories to prove that this world is atheistic. I would like to tell them here:

1. Michelangelo was an Italian famous artist in the Renaissance. He accepted the Roman Church to draw an oil painting of Adam and Eva, and he asked:
“Did Adam have a navel?”
According to the Bible, God sculptured Adam following his figure and withdraw Adam a rib to create Eva. This first couple gave birth to mass mankind nowaday. Adam was the first person and was most perfect. Everyone has a navel, so does Adam. But Adam was the figure of God. Adam has a navel, therefore God has a navel. God is the supreme creator, why is he created and given birth by others ? If God doesn’t have a navel but Adam had, this mean God didn’t sculpture Adam like him. This is against the Bible. If the navel of Adam is a mistake of God in creating, this is against the Church because God never makes any mistake. If Adam didn’t have a navel, then everyone of us has but Adam didn’t. Thus, the creation of God was not perfect, and Adam was not perfect. In conclusion, Adam had a navel or not, both make the Church contradictory.
Click to expand...
Not sure what he is quoting to suggest adam is the figure of god (and hence their bodies are non-different) ... even less sure why being belly-buttonless renders one imperfect ... but even all this aside, form follows function is not a design brief even for plastic surgeons, what to speak of an omnipotent god so the entire argument is moot


2. One day, a believer went to the church. He said:”Father, I believe in God, but I don’t know if God can help me?”
The vicar answered calmly:”God is almighty. God can help you what you wish. All you need is to pray.”
The believer was worried, saying:”My neighbour also trust in God. And if I pray God for raining, he will pray God for stopping raining. How does God decide ?”
The vicar: “…”
Click to expand...
more of an argument against a god that occupies no greater function or purpose than a vending machine ... but then you don't have to be atheistic to vouch for that - there are stacks of theistic arguments about such a view of god is besieged with a host of philosophical dilemmas

3. European scholastic philosophers said God was almighty, and the world was created by God. About this point, Cao ni lo asked:”Can God create astone which he can not lift ?” With this question, scholastic philosophers surrendered. If answering that God can create a stone which he can not life, then there will be a stone that he can not lift. And thus God is not almighty. If answering that God can not create a stone that he can not lift, then there will be a stone that he can not create. And therefore God is not almighty. Both ways, God is not almighty. Nearly one thousand years have passed, this question still has deep impression into theologians’ minds, and they haven’t had the answer.
Click to expand...
God's qualities are always expanding - so one moment he can create a stone he cannot lift. The next moment his strength expands so he can. Then the next moment he can create a stone he cannot lift - and so on - this is what it means to be unlimited.
4. Clothes have no souls, so all souls are naked. Jesus is also a soul & he ...! Angels are souls, & naked. I may say that if we met angels, we would see them naked.
Click to expand...
once again, form follows function (or in a wider context, bringing paradigms pertinent to the material creation to an analysis of the spiritual creation) doesn't hold.

Kind of like saying there are no recorded incidents of hedgehogs behind the driving wheel being involved in car accidents, so they are amongst the safest drivers in the world.

For you, the theistic, please teach me that how do I trust God ? Thanks a lot
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You have to know what you are, what god is and the relationship inbetween - Fail in any of these three and the proposition becomes ludicrous.
 
taoist11 said:
The believer was worried, saying:”My neighbour also trust in God. And if I pray God for raining, he will pray God for stopping raining. How does God decide ?”
The vicar: “…”
Click to expand...

this is where i struggle with prayer..
how am i to know that my prayer is what god wants?

my prayers end up being 'god do what you will'..
 
NMSquirrel said:
this is where i struggle with prayer..
how am i to know that my prayer is what god wants?

my prayers end up being 'god do what you will'..
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:thumbsup:

that's the 2nd thumbs up i've given you today. you're on a roll...
 
"""""""""""my prayers end up being 'god do what you will'..""""""""""

Please, don't encourage him. You know how he gets.
 
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1. This falsely assumes that Adam had a navel. Adam was not born, thus no placenta or navel.
2. The vicar lied. God is not a puppet on a string, but acts only according to his character.
3. God is infinite in all ways, thus no need exists for such a thing.
4. "Clothes don't have souls" is different than "Souls have no clothes".
 
NMSquirrel said:
this is where i struggle with prayer..
how am i to know that my prayer is what god wants?
Click to expand...

Just as we get to know anyone...show an interest and learn about their particular traits. But more importantly the exercise of love means we are less focused our selves than others.
 
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