How can religion be used to control inner city youths

Michael

歌舞伎
Valued Senior Member
I was thinking about inner city youths (gangs etc..) and how violent the inner cities of the USA can be. Now, I was thinking about the real reason for religion - which is obviously to control behavior. Given the notion that inner city youths really need to have their behavior modified, which religion do you suppose would be the best for controlling them?

I was leaning towards Islam. Its has a simple and easy to digest message and daily regulated behavior combined with a God willing to toast your arse if you screw up is the tried and true method of controlling people's actions.

If the girls stay covered maybe there's less chance for sex, therefor less chance for teenage pregos. The boys new gang is simply being Muslim. No more red's popping blues etc...

Any thoughts?
 
different sects would soon develop and there would be exactly the same gang wars.
 
I was thinking about inner city youths (gangs etc..) and how violent the inner cities of the USA can be. Now, I was thinking about the real reason for religion - which is obviously to control behavior. Given the notion that inner city youths really need to have their behavior modified, which religion do you suppose would be the best for controlling them?

I was leaning towards Islam.
Of course, because islamic countries have little to no violence. :bugeye:

The best deterrent to violent and other illegal behavior is education, plain and simple.

http://www.fightcrime.org/

~Raithere
 
As long as there is poverty and discrimination, there will be gangs.
 
Exterminate the inner city youths and the problem is no more. Collect tithes and hire hitmen. Put the fear of God into their little bones.
 
They already have that. Its called the cops, but unfortunately, it does not work.

Can you guess why?
 
No because fatherless children in poor neighborhoods still have less options.
 
They already have that. Its called the cops, but unfortunately, it does not work.

Can you guess why?

Because in the western world, despite the occasional aberration, the cops hands are tied in dealing with gang crime.

A combination of carrot and the stick and sensible criminal legislation would solve the problem:
  • decriminalize victimless crimes (prostitution, drug usage).
  • enforce truancy laws with marshall schooling as an alternative for those who can't make the commitment to attend.
  • make public housing dependent upon random drug testing (drugs should be legal, but the government shouldn't be in the business of supporting drug addicts), household inspections and school attendance and performance of the children.
  • remove the incentive for suburban flight by doing what Portland, Oregon did, place state parks around the city that basically isolate it and force people to stay in the city and invest their time and dollars there.
  • centralize all funding of schools at the state capital level, removing the funding from the local level. Distribute the funds on a student basis.
  • hold the parents criminally responsible for the behavior and performance of their children.
  • OR you can do what China does-- license parenting, force people to get sterilized. That's a bit extreme, but eventually people need to start guiding evolution by desirable traits and not by who's the loosest and most promiscuous people.

~String
 
How the hell are you supposed to 'use religion to control people'? You think you can just insert a program into their brains a la The Matrix, and they'll instantly morph into Muslims? You might manage that with little kids, but teens are NOT malleable.
 
Because in the western world, despite the occasional aberration, the cops hands are tied in dealing with gang crime.

A combination of carrot and the stick and sensible criminal legislation would solve the problem:
  • decriminalize victimless crimes (prostitution, drug usage).
  • enforce truancy laws with marshall schooling as an alternative for those who can't make the commitment to attend.
  • make public housing dependent upon random drug testing (drugs should be legal, but the government shouldn't be in the business of supporting drug addicts), household inspections and school attendance and performance of the children.
  • remove the incentive for suburban flight by doing what Portland, Oregon did, place state parks around the city that basically isolate it and force people to stay in the city and invest their time and dollars there.
  • centralize all funding of schools at the state capital level, removing the funding from the local level. Distribute the funds on a student basis.
  • hold the parents criminally responsible for the behavior and performance of their children.
  • OR you can do what China does-- license parenting, force people to get sterilized. That's a bit extreme, but eventually people need to start guiding evolution by desirable traits and not by who's the loosest and most promiscuous people.

~String

Or you could simply give them options:

Not an example of inner city gangs, but still good as an example, considering the tongue-in-cheek OP

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1673270,00.html
 
Or you could simply give them options:

Though I don't doubt the long term cost of gangs, I highly doubt that the resolution is providing cushy alternatives that also serve as an incentive to well behaved individuals to "act" badly and get the fun alternatives.

At the end of the day, the government cannot erase all crime. In non-homogeneous societies, there are bound to be cultural and ideological clashes that seem extreme. Life is dirty. Equality of results or living standards is a total pipe dream. You provide reasonable rules to play by, ample incentives to behave, and strong penalties coupled with unwavering education. That's about the best you can do. You cannot drag everybody past the finish line, but you can make interfering with the race as unsavory as possible.

~String

PS-- I think the program you posted about is fantastic and really isn't too far off the alternatives I was talking about. It's all about options to deviant minds: go to regular (well funded, well staffed) public schools, or go to the ones with guards and walls. Either way, you'll be in a classroom, but in one your day is regimented from sun-up to sun-down. It doesn't have to be boot camp or prison, but it shouldn't be a country club.
 
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I think how people visualise you can have a massive impact on your choices. Very often, these kids do not have the option to develop outside of people's expectations.

One thing I used to find odd in Saudi Arabia, before I understood how their minds worked. If you made an official complaint about someone, there would be an official investigation about it [no matter how minor or trivial the matter]; at the end of it, if your complaint was found to be valid, a suitable infraction [usually a pay cut or a transfer] would be issued to the offending party. However, a smaller infraction [depending on the amount of noise generated] would also be issued to the one who made the complaint. Reason? They did not try to reach a resolution through dialogue or diplomacy or by unofficial means before making a formal complaint [if they did try and failed, then they are not infracted]. Its an odd system, but its useful in the workplace.
 
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[*]remove the incentive for suburban flight by doing what Portland, Oregon did, place state parks around the city that basically isolate it and force people to stay in the city and invest their time and dollars there.
stopping whiteout is a great idea. I've been in Phili (first time) this week and it's just sick that row after row of Victorian 3 story houses are burned, rotten, and forgotten.

Note: Joes Phili Cheese Steak... meh........
 
How the hell are you supposed to 'use religion to control people'? You think you can just insert a program into their brains a la The Matrix, and they'll instantly morph into Muslims? You might manage that with little kids, but teens are NOT malleable.
yes you are right, I was thinking, accept your losses and start with the kids.
 
At the end of the day, the government cannot erase all crime. In non-homogeneous societies, there are bound to be cultural and ideological clashes that seem extreme. Life is dirty. Equality of results or living standards is a total pipe dream. You provide reasonable rules to play by, ample incentives to behave, and strong penalties coupled with unwavering education. That's about the best you can do. You cannot drag everybody past the finish line, but you can make interfering with the race as unsavory as possible.
String, do you live in the city. What do you think about it. I had forgot how bad it was and now, 3 days back in the US I see some girl punching another girl in the face while waiting in for the bus. I listen to my buddy, whose place I'm crashing at, complain about the 13 year old shot last night he had to operate on.

It suddenly reminded me of a time i saw a guy get his head shot, off, his shoulders. suddenly I thought, religion makes sense.... Imagine how difficult it must have been 5000 years ago. No wonder you needed to convince people of hell.

However, a smaller infraction [depending on the amount of noise generated] would also be issued to the one who made the complaint. Reason? They did not try to reach a resolution through dialogue or diplomacy or by unofficial means before making a formal complaint [if they did try and failed, then they are not infracted]. Its an odd system, but its useful in the workplace.
This is fine in a civilized society but in the inner US city....???



PS: You know those free drinks they give during the conference..... yup :)
 
stopping whiteout is a great idea. I've been in Phili (first time) this week and it's just sick that row after row of Victorian 3 story houses are burned, rotten, and forgotten.

Note: Joes Phili Cheese Steak... meh........

Never heard of "joes Phili Cheeses Steak" OR "Joes Philly cheses steak" either.
 
String, do you live in the city. What do you think about it. I had forgot how bad it was and now, 3 days back in the US I see some girl punching another girl in the face while waiting in for the bus. I listen to my buddy, whose place I'm crashing at, complain about the 13 year old shot last night he had to operate on.

I've lived in four major metropolitan areas: Cleveland, Ohio. Madrid, Spain. NYC, New York. Phoenix, Arizona. I will tell you quite frankly, the ONLY city where I ever saw a gun used to commit a crime was Madrid. I know that, that's the exception, but Mostoles (suburb of Madrid, where I lived) was known for being a hotbed of street crime and petty theft when I lived there. That was 13 years ago and I hear it swings a lot.

New York city was a dream. I loved that city more than any other city I've ever been to (and I've been to a lot of them: Miami, San Diego, Paris, London, Barcelona, Phoenix, Houston, Detroit, Chicago, D.C., Toronto, Quebec City, Marrakesh and Dakar to name a few). They've all got their high points, but I swear there's something about New York that is captivating. I didn't see anything overly distasteful while I was there and, believe it or not, my experience with the natives was nothing but fantastic.

Living in Phoenix was nice, I loved the weather, but there are parts there that are just uninhabitable (South Phoenix & Guadalupe for example). The city is totally sprawled-out and you have to drive a hundred feet to buy a pack of gum. People were a mixture of southwest ruggedness and LA facetiousness. I was never totally able to cope with the utter untrustworthiness of the people I knew. Perhaps that was my fault for not being selective, but I moved out there with a fairly sizable Cleveland diaspora (I was working for Progressive [based out of Cleveland] at that time and opened their new campus) and they all seemed to agree that people weren't as forward about their thoughts. In Cleveland, if someone doesn't like you, they'll either avoid you or just say so. In AZ, there seems to be a cultural need to put up a front and maneuver & jockey friends for political reasons (a very L.A. trait).

Then there's my hometown, Cleveland. It's quite livable. Easy going and remarkably humble people (you have to be, it's not like you can name-drop "Cleveland" to people and get a reaction other than, "Oh, man... I'm so sorry!"). Very blue collar. You can make friends easier than anyplace else in C-Town. It's a city comprised of lots of small towns, each with their own German, Irish, Italian, Slavic, African, Latino, or Asian heritage. Much of the city is a rusted out hulk and it's never rally recovered from the industrial exit of the 70's and 80's. It's experiencing a bit of a revival, but it'll never be the city of Carnegie and Rockafeller (both of whom made Cleveland their home).

As far as the violence goes, well, I guess I'm numb to it. I was told by a friend who went to India once, that the overwhelming overpopulation coupled with the abject poverty is almost unbearable. It all stands next to the most beautiful vistas and buildings imaginable. But after a while, he said, your senses become numb to the smells and contrast that it doesn't bother you anymore. I'm assuming that the contrasts and plights of the first world are very much the same.

It suddenly reminded me of a time i saw a guy get his head shot, off, his shoulders. suddenly I thought, religion makes sense.... Imagine how difficult it must have been 5000 years ago. No wonder you needed to convince people of hell.

You've hit the nail on the head. People need to make sense of it all (literally and emotionally) and religion fills that void. For many people the horrors of the world overwhelm them and they need to believe that something better awaits. The infinite nature of space/time when contrasted with the infinitesimal nature of their life needs rationalization. "God" solves those issues for people.

~String
 
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