How can God not exist?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Socratic Spelunker,

Lightning and cavemen
Click to expand...

What would be the catalyst to transform the mind

I'm a theist, and I do believe in the God of the Bible, but I have to admit that there's nothing about the idea of God, or any idea, that proves itself true. I just don't think it works that way.
Click to expand...

Why?

jan.
 
wellwisher said:
Before the invention of the quantum theory, science understood reality in terms of continuous functions (analog) instead of discontinuous functions like quantum theory (quantum states).

What quantum theory did was lower the entropy or degrees of freedom of the perceieved universe, since quantum means distinct states with gaps between these distinct states (less degrees of freedom or entropy). Traditionally even the gaps between were included in continuous functions. This allowed concepts like god, to occupy places in the gaps between quantum states even if not defined by the quantum states.

Athough existing in the gaps between quantum states seems odd, consider the empire state building. Using the natural laws and probabiities of quantum theory, the odds are essentially zero for the empire state building to spontaneously appear, naturally. Yet it exists in reality. It exists in the gaps between what is predictable by quantum theory.

This proves it is possible for all types of things to exist within the gaps between what follows naturally from the quantum theory, with human nature appearing to fill in the gaps back to continuous functions. God by being omnipresent implies he will be found as a function that can exist in quantum and quantum gaps at the same time. The empire state building would be considered as stemming from the divine nature within humans since it exists in the continuum of which quantum is a part.
Click to expand...

So what is the nature of God?

jan.
 
Jan Ardena said:
Socratic Spelunker,



What would be the catalyst to transform the mind.
Click to expand...

Right, but the concept of God they would derive from the experience wouldn't be true. It would just be lightning and thunder, not a personal, loving, eternal Father.



Jan Ardena said:
Why?

jan.
Click to expand...

Because I don't think there's really any such thing as a truth being "self-evident". If something is true, it's not because it makes itself true. If it's true, it must square up with, and be consistent with, OTHER truths that we know of the world.

Or else, what's to stop the Spaghetti Monster from being true? After all, 50 ft. tall walking, eternal piles of talking spaghetti are not something we've ever seen either.
 
Last edited:
Despite all these ramblings, my point still stands.

You underestimate the creativity of the human mind.


Can you think of something that cannot be thought? No.
 
Jan Ardena said:
You may as well say that a greater being would be able to not prove himself, and, prove himself to human beings. Which is the case.
Click to expand...
So a greater being is self-contradictory and thus logically impossible? Fair enough.
Why would such a transformation give rise to understanding?
They already know the power (as you said).
Click to expand...
They know the power exists, but not the why it happens.
So why make such a dramatic transition?
Click to expand...
Who says there was any dramatic transition?
It's not a question of history, but of the human mind.
The human mind tends to anthropomorphise objects that are real to them,
not create something that previously didn't exist.
Click to expand...
That's the point - God is an anthropomorphisation... for some of animals, for some of nature, for some of the entire universe and beyond.
As I am trying ascertain reasons why gods were ''created'' in the first place, that doesn't seem like a good idea.
Click to expand...
Yet when you are provided with possible reasons you dismiss them for having assumptions??? :shrug:
Because the concept of God is not based on anything we know in the universe, much less our day to day dealings.
Click to expand...
Yes it is... it is squarely based on the concept of cause and effect - or are you disputing the concept of God as "initial cause" or "cause of all causes"?
In this regard God is just the anthropomorphisation of the gap in that knowledge.
 
But people don't a general visual concept of god either (until they see a "painting" of him). Same thing...
 
Jan Ardena said:
How is it possible to come with the concept of Got out of having absolutely
no idea of God?

Is it possible to think of something that does not exist?
And by ''not exist'' i mean not related to any pre-existing thing, or concept.

jan
Click to expand...

Jan, do we really need this thread??
In contradistinction to the "God Must Exist" thread (also yours..)???

Seriously, it's getting a little tiresome.
You could have stretched a little and easily had a thread with a chance at life if you had replaced "God" with "Dracula".
Seriously.

sigh

I fear that this thread will be in the abyss by Sunday...
 
Not you, Jan.
His sole response was "I'm not sure what you're getting at."
When my final sentence was "Ergo: he doesn't".

Blind spot much? :D
 
Dywyddyr said:
Not you, Jan.
His sole response was "I'm not sure what you're getting at."
When my final sentence was "Ergo: he doesn't".

Blind spot much? :D
Click to expand...

Ah. Cool. Still having a bad brain day.. err.. week here..


I like to call it "reverent myopia"...
 
Socratic Spelunker said:
Yes. I defy you to imagine a four-sided triangle. Wait, we'll keep it simple. Imagine a shape with exactly 476,639,756 sides, no more, no less.
Click to expand...

OK, I'll humour you....


No such thing as a four sided triangle. If it was four sided it would be classified a rectangle.
Plus I'm imagining a 476,639,756 sided shape right now. It looks surprising like a circle as well. Amazing. :rolleyes:
 
drumbeat said:
It looks surprising like a circle as well.
Click to expand...

It may look like it, but it's not. Anyways, I do think there are things that cannot be thought. We evolved with the ability to think abstractly, but only to a point. Deep scientific concepts and complex mathematical information is just difficult for us to process mentally.

I can't remember what relevance this had to the thread, though.
 
Jan Ardena:

Why did you edit out all mention of St Anselm's ontological argument from your opening post, after leaving it for 5 hours?

Did you change your mind about finding it "absolutely brilliant" after some of the other comments?

Jan Ardena said:
How is it possible to come with the concept of Got out of having absolutely no idea of God?
Click to expand...

Extrapolate from what you know. You know about parents. So imagine a super-parent. You know about people, so imagine a super-person.

A similar question would be to ask: how is it possible to come up with the concept of a unicorn while having absolutely no idea of unicorns? Answer: you know about horses. You know about horns and wings. So imagine a super-horse with a horn and wings.

Is it possible to think of something that does not exist?
Click to expand...

Sure. Novelists, script writers, scientists, choreographers, painters, stock-market analysts, compuer programmers, chefs, and countless other people do it every day.

And by ''not exist'' i mean not related to any pre-existing thing, or concept.
Click to expand...

Ah, well that's different. Probably that can't be done.

The notion of gods, of course, is obviously related to pre-existing things and concepts.
 
James R said:
Jan Ardena:

Why did you edit out all mention of St Anselm's ontological argument from your opening post, after leaving it for 5 hours?

Did you change your mind about finding it "absolutely brilliant" after some of the other comments?
Click to expand...

lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top