Honour above all. Or not?

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Victor E

Registered Senior Member
In past centuries, different cultures, with different "ethic rules" has existed. Also, people in general have changed their opinion in a lot of things.

People like the Samurajs, fought for honour. Which was central in their lives. For this honour, they were ready to sacrifice other things, such as human rights, etc.

What do you think is highest, human rights, honour, loyalty, or any other lifestyle.

Myself, I believe that honour is a great thing. Honour above all, as the topic title says.

Of course, the ultimate thing, is a combination between different types. But what is, for you, the most imortant thing.

Edit: *have changed
 
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Victor E said:
Myself, I believe that honour is a great thing. Honour above all, as the topic title says.
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I'm pretty keen on high school level gramar, myself. Knowing when to use "have" instead of "has" really floats my boat.
 
Honor...well, I do not really like the concept of honour that much. It can easily get perverted, also, since honour consists of pride, it seems to me as a kind of self-worship. This would mean, I would put my pride above anything else, would even subjugate my reason and feelings under it. This is too much of self-limitation for me.

I would put the integrity of my own self above anything else. In the end, that is the only thing that really matters when you go down. At least that is my opinion. Living after ideals tend to make life a living hell...
 
ok...
we talked about a moral theory in my philosophy class that gave 7 prima facie rules (Ross' theory I believe), I liked them (even though the theory was crap). if I remember correctly:

Fidelity: the duty to keep promises
Reparation: the duty to compensate others when we harm them
Gratitude: the duty to thank those who help us
Justice: the duty to recognize merit
Beneficence: the duty to improve the conditions of others
Self-improvement: the duty to improve our virtue and intelligence
Nonmaleficence: the duty to not injure others
 
Honor is great. It is a wonderful way to improve your standing in the eyes of your fellow human beings. It will open up a thousand doors which would have otherwise been permanently sealed.

There is one problem here though. Honor is worthless when you are dead.
 
Dreamwalker said:
since honour consists of pride, it seems to me as a kind of self-worship. This would mean, I would put my pride above anything else, would even subjugate my reason and feelings under it.
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Indeed it's some kind of self-worship. But you do not only worship yourself, but also people around you - your not the only one with honour.

Living after ideals tend to make life a living hell...
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Indeed, that's why you should only have ideals as guidelines. Everyone has their own set of ideals, "You shall not steal". While some people take this statement as a rule. Others take them as a guideline.

For example, a lot of people thinks it's okey to download movies and games on the internet. While other people believe it's stealing, and therefore refuse.
 
The problem with "honor" is that it's bestowed upon one by others. Thus in a "society" like Al Queda, it's "honorable" to blow oneself up and kill innocent people for the Al Queda "cause" (wahtever the hell that is?). But that SAME "honor" is seen by others as a devastating criminal act.

So, ....what's "honor", where does it come from and how does one get it?

And one could ask the same/similar questions about all of the other items you mentioned. I.e., as far as I know, there's only one absolute morality in human society .....tho' shalt not lie! Lie = the willful attempt to decieve someone (note that it has nothing to do with truth!)

Baron Max
 
Well isn't it? Honour is also fullfilling your goals. Fighting for what you think is right. If you fight for what you want, and you are ready to sacrifice your life for it. (even if it's for a bad cause) isn't that honorfull?
 
Victor E said:
Tell me something which isn't [worthless when you're dead].
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That's the whole point, isn't it? Honor as it's defined above is nothing but a quality. Sure it impacts others but it's basically about you. It's perhaps not quite worthless when you're dead because the people who knew you may get some satisfaction out of remembering you and they may strive to model their own lives after you. But after they die off it gets worthless fast.

It's accomplishments that still have value after you're gone. Inventions, ideas you've contributed, works of art, organizations you've helped prosper. Some of this stuff can live forever. A squared plus B squared = C squared, for example, or "et tu Brute?" We can't all be Pythagoras or Shakespeare and be remembered by name by disgusted schoolchildren. But we can all focus on achieving something, not just being a good person.

Lately this idea has been floated by several different people in different wordings, but it all comes out the same:

"It's what you do that determines what kind of a person you are, not who you are deep down inside."
 
Clockwood said:
Honor is worthless when you are dead.
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Get a clue. When one is dead, honor or dishonor is one of the most importent things that is passed over to his folks.
This is why honor defeats death.

ES
 
Honor is just a force for social conformity. Judging every situation by the same predetermined rules is a sure recipe for disaster. Therefore, every principle we create is tentative at best. One should not live by any principle, but spontaneously according to the flow of things.
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Throw away holiness and wisdom,
and people will be a hundred times happier.
Throw away morality and justice,
and people will do the right thing.
Throw away industry and profit,
and there won't be any thieves.

If these three aren't enough,
just stay at the center of the circle
and let all things take their course.

Tao Te Ching Vs. 19
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Can honour set to a leg? No. Or an arm? No. Or take away the grief of a wound? No. Honour hath no skill in surgery then? No. What is honour then? A word. What is that word honour? Air. A trim reckoning. Who hath it? He that died o' Wednesday. Doth he feel it? No. Doth he bear it? No. 'Tis insensible then? Yea, to the dead. But will it not live with the living? No. Why? Detraction will not suffer it. Why then, I'll none of it. Honour is a mere scutcheon. And so ends my catechism.
 
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