Homosexaul Rights

Whats Your Views On Homosexual Rights?

  • They have the same rights as everyone else (Marrige, Socialy Accepted, Church Jobs ect.)

    Votes: 20 66.7%
  • I dont care what they do, but they dont have the right to get married or work at my chruch

    Votes: 4 13.3%
  • It should be illegal

    Votes: 1 3.3%
  • I believe marrige is between a man and a women, but I dont care if they get 'joined in union'

    Votes: 5 16.7%

  • Total voters
    30
Err...Gay Rights?

Maybe I should have said ``We're limiting the discussion to places where such rights can be seen as a luxury.'' Obviously there are places where sexuality is much more open than in the West...ask draqon about his Thai Lady Boy video collection if you don't believe me.

But its not. Does that fact that Pakistan has a popular political television show hosted by a transvestite mean that homosexuality is more open in Pakistan? Not really. There are no gays in Pakistan either and yet, even there you can find a mullah to conduct a gay marriage.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4313210.stm

So again, what rights are we talking about?

PS sorry if I seem to be redundant
 
But its not. Does that fact that Pakistan has a popular political television show hosted by a transvestite mean that homosexuality is more open in Pakistan? Not really. There are no gays in Pakistan either and yet, even there you can find a mullah to conduct a gay marriage.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4313210.stm

So again, what rights are we talking about?

PS sorry if I seem to be redundant

That was a homo-humor-piece.
Interesting. Wonder if I'll be able to find a 16 year old male bride when I'm in my forties?:p
 
But its not. Does that fact that Pakistan has a popular political television show hosted by a transvestite mean that homosexuality is more open in Pakistan? Not really.
I was surprised by this, so I asked a Pakistani co-worker of mine and he said that Ali Saleem's cross-dressing thing is mostly done for comedic purposes.
 
I was surprised by this, so I asked a Pakistani co-worker of mine and he said that Ali Saleem's cross-dressing thing is mostly done for comedic purposes.

Then he's never seen the show. Its actually a serious political show outspoken against the establishment and government, with exaggerated feminine traits from Ali. Of course although he has outed himself as a bisexual/transsexual, there are no gays in Pakistan :shrug:

see this interview in English
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn7Kke8YK8Q
 
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King David, according to some... had a gay lover named Yonatan (Jonathan). I was taught that in grade school in bible class in Israel. The very religious might go nuts at this suggestion, but the texts where Yonatan and David were mentioned are kind of suggestive, and one could interpret it as that.

I don't know if that's actually true, but if I was gay and religious, that bit would give me a lot of comfort.

Now, re: gay rights... yeah, do whatever you want. But to go to a church or synagogue or mosque and go through the marriage ceremony, and calling it a marriage... it's just bizarre. The point of gays being so insistent on this is not about marriage per-se. It's about a general cry to be recognized by SOCIETY, not government, as equals not just under the law, but under society's acceptance.

It's a social battle, not a legal one. Forcing the recognition of a gay "marriage" through the laws might not be the best way to go about it. It's very agitational.

I know many gays that already say "yeah, I got married" and "I'm planning to marry" or "I want a diamond ring! I want the whole thing!" ... well, OK. I'll be polite and not laugh or diss you, I'll congratulate you for getting committed like that, and I know it won't hurt me personally... but don't ask me to recognize it in my heart of hearts. It's just not "marriage", no matter if I really want to be nice to you, and I actually truly do. It just ain't marriage. Sorry.
 
Then he's never seen the show. Its actually a serious political show outspoken against the establishment and government, with exaggerated feminine traits from Ali.
Meh. If you've actually seen the show then you know more about it than I do.
 
King David, according to some... had a gay lover named Yonatan (Jonathan). I was taught that in grade school in bible class in Israel. The very religious might go nuts at this suggestion, but the texts where Yonatan and David were mentioned are kind of suggestive, and one could interpret it as that.

WHAT?!?!
You were taught that in bible class? They just blatantly said, "Yeah, King David had a male lover named Jonathan. No biggy."
 
Meh. If you've actually seen the show then you know more about it than I do.

Hmm I actually looked it up and it is touted as a comedy show, which just goes to show what a joke it is to be gay in some places. Ali of course uses his immense talents to promote his views on sexuality, politics and society. He's brilliant and immensely watchable.
 
Sodam and Gomorrah. Did you learn that in that Bible class of yours? I guess not, they were destoryed by God because of there large homosexual population.
 
Sodam and Gomorrah. Did you learn that in that Bible class of yours? I guess not, they were destoryed by God because of there large homosexual population.

Thats version 2.0

Angels don't have a gender but they do prefer to visit where they are treated hospitably.
 

WHAT?!?!
You were taught that in bible class? They just blatantly said, "Yeah, King David had a male lover named Jonathan. No biggy."

"You mean neither was well-endowed?"

There has been speculation about this. The quote "Your love has been greater than the love of a woman" seems very strange. (that wasn't an exact quote) I sometimes wonder if the whole Levitical law thing about homosexuality was always understood as a black-and-white condemnation of same-gender relationships. The strict, Hebrew translation is I suppose open to interpretation. But sometimes I wonder if it was applied in the same way that fundamentalists would like to think it was...
 
In my home state, for example, the female partner is much more likely to end up with the kids, if there are any.
It is not due to any inherent fault in men that courts tend to discriminate against the father in child custody suits.

Domestic violence almost always (not absolutely always) starts with the male partner and is directed toward the female partner.
So you think that men are inherently violent and dangerous? I am insulted.

I think keeping a clear distinction about which partner is which in our laws would help curtail a lot of dangerous situations so that fewer women have to live in fear of their former partners.
So you think that courts will be unable to tell the difference between men and women if men can marry men and women can marry women.

I don't think you believe your own bullshit. You are just an asshole, and you deserve to have your head beaten in with a lead pipe.

If gay marriage uses the same laws, then the gender distinction about which partner gets what rights could very quickly dematerialize.
Nothing of the sort has happened in countries and states where gay people have had the same rights that you have for a long time. I think you are just a jerk.
 
i cant bring up links. At a school computer, doesnt let me

ok then I will post some excerpts::mad:

Just how is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah to be interpreted? Why does God bring fire down upon Sodom? Is the reason the one popularly given, that the people were guilty of homosexuality? To answer these questions, I should like to begin by noting how other biblical writers besides the author of this tale have used the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as a metaphor for what may happen to other peoples (Israel, Judah, Edom, Moab, etc.) or cities (Jerusalem, Babylon, Chorazin, Bethsaida, etc.) because of their wickedness. An examination of these other references turns up some significant facts. Of the eighteen passages outside of the story itself found in Old Testament writings none refer to same sex activity, and only one, Jer. 23:14, alludes to sexual immorality (namely, adultery). To cite a few examples of those found among the words of the Hebrew prophets, Isaiah (1:1-17; 13:1-22) refers generally to evil and injustice; Jeremiah (23:9-15), to general moral and ethical laxity. Ezekiel (16:46-56) and Amos (chapter 4) condemn the kingdoms of Judah and Israel, more specifically, for neglecting the poor and needy.



And what of the New Testament? Of the nine explicit references or allusions to Sodom and Gomorrah found there, only two, Jude, v. 7, and 2 Peter 2: 4-10, refer to "sexual immorality" or "depraved lusts." 2 Peter alludes to or cites the Letter of Jude so often that many Bible scholars are convinced that the writer of 2 Peter had the Letter of Jude in front of him and used it for his own letter; and if you read the passage in 2 Peter carefully, the author seems to be drawing a comparison between, on the one hand, “the sons of God” (usually interpreted as angels) who came down to earth and mated with “the daughters of men” (Gen. 6:1-4), and on the other, the men of Sodom who attempted to do sexual violence to the angel (divine) visitors whom Lot invited into his home. The comparison is that there was an unnatural mating, or attempt at a violent sexual act, between a divine being and a human being. The first acts lead ultimately to destruction by a flood, the second attempted act to destruction by fire. Possibly, the author of 2 Peter believed that Jude had the same meaning and interpretation of the Sodom story in mind.

I wonder if this use by Jesus of the metaphor of Sodom to refer to inhospitality toward his messengers may have confirmed the views of early Christian biblical scholars like Origen of Alexandria (c. 185-c. 254), who interpreted the "sin of Sodom" to be a sin against the law of hospitality, since it involved inhospitality toward God's messengers. Other early Christian scholars, like St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 339-397), considered the sexual element secondary to the issue of hospitality in their commentary on the story, or, like John Cassian (360-435), omitted any reference to sexual matters altogether. (For an extended analysis of the early commentators, see John Boswell, Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality, p. 96-98.) It appears that both biblical writers and early Christian commentators give little warrant for identifying the "sin of Sodom" as one of homosexual behavior.

While I think that the main message of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is the consequences of violating the law of hospitality, I do not consider the sexual element as inconsequential -- far from it, for this story is a complex one that raises a number of issues of interpretation, and it seems to me a mistake to insist that it means only this or that, or to overlook its complexity and subtlety. Hospitality and sexuality are those issues that have provoked most comment and debate over the interpretation of this passage, but the second raises a point ignored in our contemporary polemic over male homosexuality. As my wife Dr. Maria Lichtmann, herself a teacher of Old Testament literature, pointed out to me, most biblical commentators have nothing to say about Lot's behavior towards his daughters, if they call attention to it at all. If the inhospitality of the men of Sodom involved the desire to sexually use (i.e., abuse) the strangers under Lot's protection, what do we say about Lot, who was willing to turn his daughters over to these same men for the same purpose? If there was silence regarding Lot's attitude toward his daughters among early Jewish and Christian commentators, what does that say about their attitudes toward women and women's place in the family and society? What do we moderns think of Lot's attitude, and what are we prepared to say about it? The story also needs to be considered, along with others in those early chapters of Genesis, as elements in the Israelite polemic against Canaanite society and custom. There is much more in this story that invites comment, reflection, and meditation, and we shall do it greater justice when we begin to set polemic aside and look more deeply into it.

The entire essay is worth reading if you can access it.
 
Sodam and Gomorrah. Did you learn that in that Bible class of yours? I guess not, they were destoryed by God because of there large homosexual population.

The Bible never says Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality. There is one quote in the Book of Jude that says they went after "strange flesh" but that doesn't really imply homosexuality. If I remember correctly, the word for strange was more akin to "other" and in that sense, the flesh of woman would be certainly stranger than that of a man, because of the difference of genders.

But nowhere does God say, "Them Sodomites is bein gay. Gonna burn em up, yessir!"

If you can find any passage that says they were condemned for having homosexual relations with each other, then by all means prove me wrong. But it ain't gonna happen!
 

WHAT?!?!
You were taught that in bible class? They just blatantly said, "Yeah, King David had a male lover named Jonathan. No biggy."

Yes. But the class was taught by a secular person, so maybe there was a secular slant there... I don't know. Probably was. Who knows?

I have read that in many militaries in ancient times when men were away from women for long periods of time (their own women, or the women they'd conquered) they'd do each other up the butt. Not rape each other, but do each other. That sort of makes sense... especially because of the close bonds that are formed on the battle field. But this might be revisionist history...

The only thing I'm sure is that gays existed since Man existed.
 
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