Homicide: Life in America

Um ...?

  • Shock. The witnesses were in shock.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bastards. No excuse for that!

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • What? This is the U.S. of A-holes

    Votes: 4 44.4%
  • Other ______

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    9

Tiassa

Let us not launch the boat ...
Valued Senior Member
It's just a beautiful day in the neighborhood .... :bugeye:

As Man Lay Dying, Witnesses Turned Away (Washington Post)
The snippet of color videotape that police released -- taken by a camera positioned atop the gas station -- begins at 9:08 a.m., with traffic passing steadily on the avenue and several cars in view at the statiom.

At 9:09 a.m., the shooter appears at a distance, walking up Sixth Street on the far side of Florida Avenue . . . . Police have analyzed the video frame by frame, and Ramsey provided a running commentary, stating: "Boom! That's the gunshot."

Price then drops from view, and the gunman runs back across the Florida Avenue and disappears from sight . . . .

. . . . After the shooting, one witness -- who was just feet away from the gunman -- looked for a moment at Price's body and then turned away. Not only did he finish pumping his kerosene, but the man paid for the purchase and drove off, giving the camera its clearest look at Price lying by the pump. Police have not found that customer.

For the next few minutes, the camera records a series of cars pulling away from the station, with at least one new car pulling up to the kerosene pump where Price lay. But it is not until about 9:13, more than three minutes after the shooting, that the gas station's manager is seen approaching the body . . . .

. . . . The first 911 call was not made until 9:36 a.m., but police did not reveal who made it. Donkor said he tried to call 911 immediately after he was told about the shooting but got a recording and hung up.
Abridged from the Washington Post article.

Welcome to America. When I was 18, and freshly moved to Oregon, one of the first things I read about in the local paper was a nation-line spot about a trucker in Pennsylvania who stopped to see what a crowd was doing along the highway; he said he figured it was a wreck and a lot of scared rubberneckers not knowing what to do. He was surprised to find the rape of a minor taking place while twenty people stood around and just watched.

The final episode of Seinfeld poked fun at "Samaritan Laws", which somehow oblige people to risk their own lives for one another, but this is the kind of crap that that led to those stupid laws. Infamous in American history is the Kitty Genovese murder.

I just don't get it. People are gung-ho to go to war, to sentence to death, to do whatever it takes to fight evil. But they're also willing to turn a blind eye if fighting evil, or merely doing the right thing--such as calling 911--is too inconvenient.

What the hell?

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Boondock Saints

I'm not sure if it is originally from the christian bible or what, but there is something said by a priest near the start of the film Boondock Saints (which rocks). Something like "The greatest evil is that of good men who stand by and do nothing."

Maybe it's genetic. Some people are mindless sheep. My entire family have always been interfering bastards.
 
well i can see that. people don't want to get involved. not everyones first instinct is to jump right in. I can see the guy not getting down and trying CPR or something, but at least call 911. people who are from big cities sometimes learn just to keep your head down and ignore most things. sometimes this is a good policy.


as for that trucker thing. eww. that's screwed up. but again, don't want to get involved and feel like they aren't responsible, especialy when in a group. can always blame the other guy for not stoping it.

this reminds me of this social psych experiment. If a woman yells for help she's much more likely to get action if it's heard by a solitary person, than if it's a group of people. strange eh?
 
Originally posted by tiassa

Welcome to America. When I was 18, and freshly moved to Oregon, one of the first things I read about in the local paper was a nation-line spot about a trucker in Pennsylvania who stopped to see what a crowd was doing along the highway; he said he figured it was a wreck and a lot of scared rubberneckers not knowing what to do. He was surprised to find the rape of a minor taking place while twenty people stood around and just watched.

Did that truck driver just watch as well, or did he do anything?
 
Whoops ... yeah

The trucker called for police via celphone and proceeded to start busting heads along the roadside. The police did not have a statute under which they could arrest the witnesses, but naturally waved aside any claims of unnecessary assault against the trucker. What else could they do? People like the idea of safety, but will not pay for--and, daresay, cannot generally afford--two cops on every streetcorner, and one patrolling each mile of roadway in the country.

I still remember what took my attention away from the story: MC Hammer was reduced to giving away tickets to his Salem, Oregon show at the Day Amphitheatre. The people who paid for tickets, naturally, were pissed.

I only really remember the trucker story at all because it was part of a series of absurdities I encountered in the news right after moving to Oregon. Heck, the rapist might have had a legal shot in hell of getting away with it if he'd just done it in Wisconsin, where a judge has before acquitted a man of child rape on the grounds that the 3 year-old was "acting promiscuously".

Life in America ....

See what's even scarier is that many Americans really do believe that the rest of the world is just jealous and wants to be like us. Unfortunately, this kind of crap is part of the ticket.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
with it if he'd just done it in Wisconsin, where a judge has before acquitted a man of child rape on the grounds that the 3 year-old was "acting promiscuously

you're shitting me!! when was this?

i just moved to wisconsin and i'm pretty sure that wasn't in the brochure:eek:
 
SWEET JEBUS!!!
Can the human race sink ANY lower?! OMFG, I mean if something like that happened where I live and nobody did a thing.. Gah, i mean people who do NOTHING when somebody is KILLED OR RAPED RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM needs to get payed a visit by This Guy Gah now this is just ridicolus...
:mad: :mad: :mad:
:eek: :eek: :eek:
 
The news gets worse

This story is breaking over the weekend in Seattle:

- Without a Trace, Pt. 1 (Seattle Post-Intelligencer)
Because of a lack of knowledge, indifference or poor training, police officers in Washington state -- and around the nation -- routinely fail to take even the most obvious steps, conduct routine follow-ups or comply with the law when handling missing-persons cases, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer found in a yearlong investigation.

As a result, bodies remain unidentified, families are left without answers and, as in the case of Michelle, killers get away with murder.

For Michelle, the system failed because police ignored a law that requires them to follow up on such cases -- a routine procedure that would have identified her remains nearly 17 months sooner. The delay allowed the prime suspect to disappear.
Welcome to homicide, life and death in America. However, this story does contain a little bit that pretty much sums up a major aspect of the problem:
The small-town police chief can't see what all the fuss is all about -- or how it relates to him.

"What's there to talk about?" asked Mattawa police Chief Randy Blackburn. "She ran away, she wound up dead. End of story."
Of thee I sing ... of thee I sing.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

(Edit for Spacemanspiff: If I recall, it was about 1985. In the early 1990s, I did a lot of reading about child sexual abuse, as the subject seemed to be popping up in my life a little more often than I liked. I picked up that blurb from some book or another.)
 
theres a statute of limitations on MURDER???????

bloody hell,

what sort of fucked up country have u got there
 
theres a statute of limitations on MURDER???????

Murder has no statute of limitations in American law. I'd advise you to read the relevent case law before shooting your mouth off like an ass.

Tiassa:
Welcome to America. When I was 18, and freshly moved to Oregon, one of the first things I read about in the local paper was a nation-line spot about a trucker in Pennsylvania who stopped to see what a crowd was doing along the highway; he said he figured it was a wreck and a lot of scared rubberneckers not knowing what to do. He was surprised to find the rape of a minor taking place while twenty people stood around and just watched.

Unfortunately, this situation is in no way characteristically American. I cannot think of an example strictly like this, but point to the phenomena of the "Good German" instead.

I think there was a case like this in Massachusetts?

People are fucking sheep. According to my Soc textbook, they simply expect someone else to handle the situation. Yet this seems incomplete - why do they watch, if they are simply apathetic? I think in the New Bedford case, a rape was actually cheered on.

Apathy doesn't fully explain this.
 
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Hm, might this have a connection with a most interesting sociological phenomenon...suicide bombers and the human shield project mentality?
 
xev i was responding to tiassa's post above it

if there is no statute of limitation then i simply dont understand
 
Part 2; also Asguard, Xev

Without a Trace, pt. 2 (Seattle Post-Intelligencer)
Through hundreds of interviews and analysis of hundreds of police reports and information in three state computer databases, the P-I found that police statewide routinely botch or ignore missing-person cases, even when there are ample indications of foul play. As a result, families have been left with unanswered questions, countless dead have been buried without a name and killers have been allowed to roam free.

In the Hindman case, proper investigation might have prevented more bloodshed. The sheriff's chief detective and the county prosecutor have long suspected they were killed by their landlord, Jim Lowry, after an argument about money. But without bodies, they had no case.

In 1994, Lowry crept into a trailer on his land and shot a different tenant in the head after they argued about money. That man survived.
Part two of a local newspaper series.

Asguard--I do not believe there is a statute of limitations of murder. I don't understand the context of the issue.

Xev--I think though the hard truth is that it's becoming more and more representative. Seattle recently took some embarrassing heat after frustrated commuters taunted and jeered a bridge-jumper, encouraging her to jump so they could get the fuck to work. Incidents like this speak to the priorities of people, and the frequency with which they occur lends us some idea of how common such sentiments are among society. Whether it's the failure of a clerk to call police after sighting a missing woman, a police officer's failure to do his job, a menagerie watching a rape on the roadside, or otherwise, we're seeing either an increase in these incidents or an increase in the acknowledgment of these issues. It's a bit of a disturbing trend. Consider cruise ships with viral infections and restaurants with E. coli outbreaks. For a while, it was unclear if the rising number of E. coli tales in the Western US represented a rise in incident rates or changes in (A) public reporting structures, and (B) priorities of news editors. Presently, I have the same questions about the number of cruise ships coming to port with half their fares dog-sick. And it seems fair to consider whether (A) there is an increase in these kinds of events, or (B) there is more focus on these events (much like child abductions in 2002).

As to why ....? I wouldn't want to untangle the psychology of it. But part of it at least might actually be boredom. I mean, wars are terrible, but even I like to sit back with beer and nachos and watch the CNN lightshow. And when I stop to think of some of the video images I've watched merely because they were there in front of me ... I can't say I'm pleased with the notion that I would stand by and watch a crime occur, so I hope it's a different outcome if it ever comes up. But I've watched suicides, murders, accidental deaths, equine fellatio, and a host of other sick things before merely because I was bored and didn't have to go far. I would like to point out, though, that while I watch, I can't exactly laugh at a chick blowing a horse,and I can't exactly laugh at someone getting their face blown off. But that ties in well with my next point of speculation: am I not frequently openly horrified by a perceived lack of human sympathy in my neighbors? Can I imagine my neighbors standing around watching something like that go on? Some of them, yes. Can I imagine my neighbors ignoring a murder? Some of them, yes. Why? They're bored; this is the only show going. I have, in the past, had to look at a friend and say, "Now, someone has just emptied a firearm at me and one of your employees--can you give me a reason other than your lines of crank on the bar that I shouldn't call the police?" People have some strange notions in their heads. Maybe Joe doesn't want to interfere because the cops might somehow find the coke in his pocket. Maybe Jill has an outstanding warrant for a hit-and-run suspicion. Perhaps Jim is afraid of being sued--he's heard about a guy who performed CPR for a heart attack victim and was sued by the widow for millions because he couldn't save the guy. Maybe Tom over there swears by the old tales of a career burglar who sued a homeowner for "lost wages" after falling down the stairs in the middle of a robbery. Maybe Theresa and Chuck are having an affair, and don't want to get involved because their families might find out.

Something you might be familiar with: It used to be that friends of mine would prevent me from intervening in bad situations taking place in front of me. One circle of associates seriously avoided getting involved in situations for various fears; nothing like a rape or murder has ever come up before. But concerts changed that; club shows, especially. Take Floater, for instance, who abhor violence at their shows. Vocalist Rob Wynia is known to berate combatants as security hauls them off the floor. Now, Floater fans love their band. After two or three occasions of feeling young again, jumping into moshpit fights and hauling puppydog drunks off each other, I can say that one of these friends of mine finally remembered why we intervene in situations. These days, he berates me if I don't do enough for someone. It's been a full 180 that has taken several years to concretize.

And what's even worse is that on those occasions that something does happen and people do assist or intervene, I've noticed this sort of confused, blinking look afterward where people just sort of look at each other and say, "Well, I thought you ....." So there's something about the herd mentality there, as well, but no, I can't figure it entirely.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
i apologise, i miss read your post

i thought you said that the cops ahad a time limit to push the case
 
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