Holocaust ... and other forms of Denial

[Michael]

Anti-miscegenation amendments to the Constitution were all attempted by Democrats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-...-miscegenation_laws_and_the_U.S._Constitution
Today, racial segregation, which occurs most in democrat-controlled cities, has the most influence on inherited IQ.

Progressive's were some of the biggest proponents of eugenics, naturally. WSJ: The Progressive History of Eugenics.

That said, I'm not sure how anti-miscegenation laws affect iceaura's most recent argument: "White racism affects the IQ of black people in the USA."

Firstly, a lot of white, yellow, black, and red Americans are mixtures of white, yellow, black and red people. For example Science: Genetic study reveals surprising ancestry of many Americans.

In the United States, almost no one can trace their ancestry back to just one place. And for many, the past may hold some surprises, according to a new study. Researchers have found that a significant percentage of African-Americans, European Americans, and Latinos carry ancestry from outside their self-identified ethnicity. The average African-American genome, for example, is nearly a quarter European, and almost 4% of European Americans carry African ancestry.

The average African-American genome, for example, is 73.2% African, 24% European, and 0.8% Native American.
​

What exactly is your argument iceaura? That African-Americans would have a significantly higher percentage of European ancestry (and therefore higher IQ) if not for these laws? Is that your argument?

My guess is, the number of people who would have engaged in so-called inter-racial marriages would have been minimum. Statistically, insignificant post-civil war. Further, none of these laws are in effect today, and so the laws do not affect modern day Americans.

That said, this is a great example of Progressive Socialism. Where the State is employed against morally innocent humans for the supposed 'good of society'. In this case, the State was used as a weapon against individual's and their personal relationships (this included laws against marrying yellows and whites, blacks and native Americans, and etc...). You know what the craziest thing is? I would not doubt, given the insanity of the Left in modern politics, that such laws don't come BACK into effect in the future. Given the whole polemic regarding 'Cultural Appropriation' don't be surprised if 'evil racist whites' aren't legally prevented from 'mixing' / appropriating the genetics of minorities via similar laws.

THAT'S the level of insanity we now see coming out of the progressive left. Which, makes good sense, given their racist history.

 

[Michael]

Higher population average IQ scores - remember?
OK, I'll bite on one - just to illustrate:
https://inis.iaea.org/search/search.aspx?orig_q=RN:46049283
http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/ABSTRACTS/Neurobehavioral_Aspects_of_Omega-3.shtml
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130823094331.htm
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25713056
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121025122433.htm
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/08/19/omega-3-fat-dha.aspx

I went through and read each of these articles.

The last one is a store-front? I mean, come on.

Yes, there is some (weak) evidence that omega-3 (more likely that 3 to 6 ratio) affects brain development (at least of rodents). The second link is in relation to depression, which depending on the study, affects whites more so than blacks (see: the astronomical suicide rates of white males as some evidence, but, again, this is probably mostly genetic differences). The third link is with regards to ADHD, however, ADHD is correlated with a higher IQ, not lower IQ. Not to mention, the differences are more pronounced when looking at gender, as opposed to melanin amount. The fourth link refers to vitamin D, which is supplemented in most foods.

Yes, again, we agree - you do need to be nourished to grow a proper brain.

News flash iceaura, almost all children attend government schools where they are provided with nutritional foods that meet the national standards set by the DoED including essential vitamins, minerals, and fats. Unless you're going to start on some CT theory???

If you want this 'evidence' to provide you support of your argument, then you first need to show that black Americans lack omega-3, 6 and vitamin D. Then you need to show that this affects their IQ. Then you need to demonstrate that 'white racism' / white people who are 'racist' is the cause of the lacking nutrition. Given the overwhelming evidence that IQ is mostly genetic, the likelihood of that remaining 15% accounting for a lack of nutrition, with regards to IQ, is very low. And the fact is, in progressive socialistic State's like ours, where Government School assessment is make-or-break, biological IQ will advance some individuals into rent-seeker status through Government enforced regulatory-capture. This clearly explains the socioeconomic patterns of the USA. No need for magical unicorn barf either


Again: No need for conspiracy theories of magical 'white racism', particularly when the causative explanation is overwhelmingly supported by effect of biological IQ. Which is why yellows dominate the IT industry. It's why Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore are rich and successful. No need for a 'Yellow Privilege' CT. It's simply a case of good luck: their genetics.

 

[iceaura]

What exactly is your argument iceaura? That African-Americans would have a significantly higher percentage of European ancestry (and therefore higher IQ) if not for these laws? Is that your argument?

No - it's your argument.

If you want this 'evidence' to provide you support of your argument, then you first need to show that black Americans lack omega-3, 6 and vitamin D. Then you need to show that this affects their IQ. Then you need to demonstrate that 'white racism' / white people who are 'racist' is the cause of the lacking nutrition

I don't. I'm just trashing your Jim Crow denial blather about IQ scores, and I don't need any of that for that.

Your bizarre attempt to justify Jim Crow denial by pointing at black people's IQ scores and making some kind of "argument", using as evidence of whatever you're trying to say the IQ scores of Chinamen and the familial inheritance factor of IQ, is relevant to this thread only as an example of the nature of absurd denial - in this case denial of Jim Crow.

Given the overwhelming evidence that IQ is mostly genetic, the likelihood of that remaining 15% accounting for a lack of nutrition, with regards to IQ, is very low.

You mean 15 - 45%, depending on circumstances - according to your links.

So after discounting for diet, how much of that 15 - 45% remains to be explained by lead exposure, stereotype threat, stress, allergies, trauma, childhood disease, and so forth? Not that it matters - you're talking about familial inheritance anyway, which is irrelevant in this thread.

This guy simply insists on extrapolating from familial inheritance of variation to absolute population average score, and banging on about the imagined sociological effects, in this thread. He's seen both argument and example (height) for how basic an error that is - biologically and statistically both. He has also had it explained to him, clearly and explicitly, why the entire matter of racial IQ scores is irrelevant in this thread, which includes denial of Jim Crow in its subject matter and no other US racial matter (so far). None of that even registers, with him.

Look at this:

News flash iceaura, almost all children attend government schools where they are provided with nutritional foods that meet the national standards including essential vitamins, minerals, and fats

That was in the line with this:

This idea that E. Asians (or white Jews) have higher IQ scores because they consume more oily fish is asinine.

Absurd denial seems to be correlated with intellectual crippling. The question is one of direction of influence: which comes first, the denial or the mental handicap? Or is it a feedback loop?

 

[Michael]

No - it's your argument.

You no longer claim that white racism is affecting black people in the USA? You no longer claim that any differences in average IQ scores between whites, blacks or yellows have anything at all to do with white racism?

Good, progress

 

[Michael]

Your bizarre attempt to justify Jim Crow denial by pointing at black people's IQ scores and making some kind of "argument", using as evidence of whatever you're trying to say the IQ scores of Chinamen and the familial inheritance factor of IQ, is relevant to this thread only as an example of the nature of absurd denial - in this case denial of Jim Crow.

You're going to have to write more coherently than this is you want to be understood.

You mean 15 - 45%, depending on circumstances - according to your links.

That is correct.

So after discounting for diet, how much of that 15 - 45% remains to be explained by lead exposure, stereotype threat, stress, allergies, trauma, childhood disease, and so forth? Not that it matters - you're talking about familial inheritance anyway, which is irrelevant in this thread.

Yes, and there's no good evidence that 'white racism' is leading to increased lead exposure, childhood disease, mental stress, etc... in a manner that significantly affects the IQ of black, yellow, or other white people.

This guy simply insists on extrapolating from familial inheritance of variation to absolute population average score, and banging on about the imagined sociological effects, in this thread. He's seen both argument and example (height) for how basic an error that is - biologically and statistically both. He has also had it explained to him, clearly and explicitly, why the entire matter of racial IQ scores is irrelevant in this thread, which includes denial of Jim Crow in its subject matter and no other US racial matter (so far). None of that even registers, with him.

One more time, the average height of men, is greater than women. This is GENETIC. As for some subgroups of women (Dutch), being taller than groups of men (Hmong), again, this is due to biological differences.

Lastly, YOU are the one making a categorical error. Racist attitudes of 'white people' have not been able to prevent the socioeconomic success of high IQ people, as exampled by white Jews (murdered during WWII), Japanese (had their property stolen during WWII and were subjected to all manner of discriminatory laws - not to mention having their homelands nuked - still, a prosperous society) or E. Asians in general, who make up a massive number of University graduates, regardless of the structural discrimination used against them on entrance exams, they dominate the IT industry, not because of 'yellow privilege' but because they are born with higher biological IQ. And the same reasoning is true of black Americans, who dominate many sports. White racism isn't the reason why blacks dominate the NBA. It's simple biology.

 

[iceaura]

You no longer claim that white racism is affecting black people in the USA?

I never did, in this thread. That's not the thread topic.

You're going to have to write more coherently than this is you want to be understood.

None of your IQ bs is relevant to this thread, except as further illustration of the mental crippling associated with absurd denial.

You mean 15 - 45%, depending on circumstances - according to your links.
That is correct.

So use 45% from now on, to balance your arbitrary and unlikely (in such a genetically diverse and ill-defined and outbred "population") low end number of 15%. That won't correct your fundamental errors, but it should slow down the flow rate.

Yes, and there's no good evidence that 'white racism' is leading to increased lead exposure, childhood disease, mental stress, etc... in a manner that significantly affects the IQ of black, yellow, or other white people.

Sure there is. Jim Crow has had all kinds of such effects, obvious to even casual observation and listed for you several times now.

One more time, the average height of men, is greater than women. This is GENETIC.

So?

As for some subgroups of women (Dutch), being taller than groups of men (Hmong), again, this is due to biological differences.

No, it's not. I've linked you to the research on that several times now - Komlos et al.

Lastly, YOU are the one making a categorical error. Racist attitudes of 'white people' have not been able to prevent the socioeconomic success of high IQ people, as exampled by white Jews (murdered during WWII), Japanese (had their property stolen during WWII and were subjected to all manner of discriminatory laws - not to mention having their homelands nuked - still, a prosperous society) or E. Asians in general,

That's all irrelevant. Jim Crow and its effects on black people are recorded history and obvious present day circumstance, regardless of what happened to anyone else.

The mental crippling associated with absurd denial makes the denial immune to reason. Is this cause or effect?

 

[Michael]

I never did, in this thread. That's not the thread topic.

One more time, to make sure we are clear: You no longer claim that white racism is affecting black people in the USA?

None of your IQ bs is relevant to this thread

Sure it is, IQ / brain function is a reasonable explanation for the socioeconomic status of people living in the USA. High IQ Americans are generally (on average) in the upper levels socioeconomically, and low IQ Americans are on average lower.

So use 45% from now on, to balance your arbitrary and unlikely (in such a genetically diverse and ill-defined and outbred "population") low end number of 15%. That won't correct your fundamental errors, but it should slow down the flow rate.

Yes approximately 15 - 45% of an IQ test score is probably not genetic.

Jim Crow has had all kinds of such effects

Yes, 'had'. The holocaust 'had' all kinds of effects on white German Jews. That was a generation ago. Within a short period of time, high IQ Jewish Germans soon began to repopulate positions of academia, political positions, industry, banking, etc... and in short-order quickly moved right back up to the top levels of the socioeconomic strata. Likewise for Japanese. Nuking and firebombing their cities flat, had a great effect on them - particularly the people irradiated. And in short-order, they rebuilt those cities to become, in my opinion, one of only a few truly 'first-world' nations. Also, Americans of Japanese ancestry living in the USA, they had their property confiscated and were put in concentration camps, and once let out, they quickly reestablished themselves into the high socioeconomic stratum.

No one is arguing that there were racist laws on the books at one time. That time is gone. Those laws are no longer in effect. AND it was primarily White Christian men who, bribed, fought, paid and died to end Slavery in the USA. Which only last a single lifetime.

So yes, we agree, progressive socialistic Jim Crow laws had an effect on humans at one time. Yes Progressive Socialists thought it was 'good for society' to use the State's militant arm against morally innocent humans - that's what they do. They're still racists to this very day. They LOVE pitting one against another. It's the nature.

In this world, today, black Americans living in Chicago have a lower literacy rate, are more likely to be shot (by a black American), are more likely to do drugs, and are less likely to know who their father is, compared with black Americans living in the 1920s. That's what 100 years of Progressive Socialism has brought to black America. Not white racism. White racism was higher then, when compared with now. Not to mention, if you're a black American you can enter the police force, become a firefighter, enter University with LOWER standards compared to Asian Americans (or Whites). Hell, an Indian man listed himself as a "black American" in order to get accepted into medical school. He knew if he listed himself as Asian, or Indian - no way was he going to get admitted, so he listed himself as black.

The Institutionalized racism in the USA favors black Americans. I have listed link after link where being black will help you get a job whereas to be an E. Asian, harms you.

White racism is at all time low. What's at all time highs is Progressive Statism.

The mental crippling associated with absurd denial makes the denial immune to reason. Is this cause or effect?

The only one mentally crippled is you. Your Science denialism and inability to deal with the fact that different populations of humans developed different cognitive traits. But that's okay, because you will be drowned in an ocean of genetic data demonstrating just how wrong you are. Your Marxist Blank Slate Theory will be washed away together with all the other Socialistic nonsense that has undermined society. Who knows? Maybe mainstream America will finally discover how their public institutions have been infested with the worse kinds of socialists and do something about it? Maybe the role of the State's enforced regulatory capture and devastating effects it has on low-IQ people of ANY color will be recognized as the true legacy of Progressive Socialism, together with the generations of low-IQ people being encouraged to have a lot of low-IQ children to make money off the Progressive welfare State. Of course, by then our third world Cities (and that's what US Cities are now, third world crap-holes) will mirror Venesula and metastisize into the suburbs. Then, maybe then, functional illiterate Government schooled America might wake up. Or if Progressives have their way, maybe we'll get lucky and have another Civil War. Or, perhaps it'll be time to pass a Boomer Tax? You know, for the good of the roads because you use the society
Interesting times indeed

 

[Michael]

This is interesting, in China, the word baizuo (白左) refers to the ‘white left’ and is used as an insult. A baizuo is an educated upper-middle-class white person/racist/progressive socialist. To the Chinese, they see these white people are traitors to their nation.

LOL

Even the COMMUNIST Chinese refer to the Progressive Left as an insult. That's great news - for them. They have a fighting chance

 

[iceaura]

One more time, to make sure we are clear: You no longer claim that white racism is affecting black people in the USA?

That has never been a claim of mine on this thread. That entire issue is and has been nothing but an example of absurd denial, posted over and over again here by you.

No one is arguing that there were racist laws on the books at one time. That time is gone. Those laws are no longer in effect

Their effects are all around you. According to you, if you actually take your blithering about black American's IQ scores seriously, they are dominant over all other effects.

Sure it is, IQ / brain function is a reasonable explanation for the socioeconomic status of people living in the USA.

That is irrelevant.

Yes approximately 15 - 45% of an IQ test score is probably not genetic.

That is irrelevant.

In this world, today, black Americans living in Chicago have a lower literacy rate, - - - compared with black Americans living in the 1920s.

That is false. And irrelevant.

The Institutionalized racism in the USA favors black Americans.

That is false. And irrelevant.

I have recommended, in the past, that you flip coins when posting historical or political facts - your accuracy rate is far below chance. But it doesn't matter here, because it makes no difference whether any of these irrelevant claims of yours are accurate or not.

Why are you avoiding the thread topic, and posting all this crap?

These illustrations of the mental crippling associated with absurd denial may be entertaining, but they are long sufficient. You have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that your denial of white racism and its effects on black people in the US is firmly rooted in your mental world, and could not be removed with a pickaxe and a stick of dynamite. Now it's time to address the thread topic.

 

[Michael]

One more time, to make sure we are clear: You no longer claim that white racism is affecting black people in the USA?

That has never been a claim of mine on this thread.

It's a yes or no question.
Do you support the claim that white racism is affecting black people in the USA?

 

[Michael]

Their effects are all around you. According to you, if you actually take your blithering about black American's IQ scores seriously, they are dominant over all other effects.

LOL
This is where you suggested white racism was leading to a decreased IQ in black people. We agreed there is no good evidence of this. The omega-3 links were not good evidence of white racism affecting the IQ of black people.

Do you have a different claim that you would like to put forward?

 

[iceaura]

It's a yes or no question.
Do you support the claim that white racism is affecting black people in the USA?

Of course - but not here. It's irrelevant here.

This is where you suggested white racism was leading to a decreased IQ in black people. We agreed there is no good evidence of this. The omega-3 links were not good evidence of white racism affecting the IQ of black people.

We agreed on nothing. I have posted a half dozen or more obvious, visible, known mechanisms by which white racism is statistically all but certain to have had some negative effect on the average IQ score of the US black population (how large an effect is unknown, since the IQ measurers do not control for any one of them, let alone the combinations).

The omega-3 links were in response to your comically unintentional linking of the diets and IQs of Chinese and Jewish people, a subject which remains irrelevant to this thread except as it illustrates the mental state of an absurd denier.

Do you have a different claim that you would like to put forward?

About what? Note the topic of the thread.
About the causes and consequences of absurd denial? About the tendency of absurd denials to cluster in individuals? I'm still mulling over the evidence here - looking for what Holocaust, AGW, and Jim Crow denial have in common, in particular.

A replacement of history with supportive myth, is one - denial of the present requires revision of the historical record.

 

[Michael]

That is false. And irrelevant.

National Center for Education Statistics:
120 Years of American Education: A Statistical Portrait
Edited by Tom Snyder, 1993

In the late 19th century and early 20th century, illiteracy was very common. In 1870, 20 percent of the entire adult population was illiterate, and 80 percent of the black population was illiterate. By 1900 the situation had improved somewhat, but still 44 percent of blacks remained illiterate. The statistical data show significant improvements for black and other races in the early portion of the 20th century as the former slaves who had no educational opportunities in their youth were replaced by younger individuals who grew up in the post Civil War period and often had some chance to obtain a basic education. ​

According to this research, 56% of African Americans were literate at the turn of the century in the midst of racist America (nevermind Americans a generation earlier died by the tens of thousands to free African American slaves, them's the kind of 'racists' you kind of wonder about).

Front Page: Chicago has a 53% LITERACY RATE (2 schools named after Obamas).


The problem isn't "white racism". This is an effect of Progressive Socialism and the shit Government Schools it barfed up a century after it was foisted on to a duped public. And get this, SAME BULLSHIT - tax the richest 1%, make them pay their fair share / cause the great depression, WWII, and stick the middle class with a monstrous centralised government that can't make up the phoney wars quick enough as it murders its way across the globe. The USA is pretty much the opposite of the ideals "America" was founded on. And we are doomed. Make no mistake about that. We won't last 200 more years. No way. Not without one hell of a cull.

 

[Michael]

Do you support the claim that white racism is affecting black people in the USA?

Of course

LOL

Do you support the claim that white racism is significantly affecting the IQ of black people in the USA?

 

[Michael]

I have posted a half dozen or more obvious, visible, known mechanisms by which white racism is statistically all but certain to have had some negative effect on the average IQ score of the US black population (how large an effect is unknown, since the IQ measurers do not control for any one of them, let alone the combinations).

LOL

No, you haven't. And a store front for omega-3 isn't good evidence that white racism is affecting the IQ of anyone, including whites. You don't even know what the IQ of blacks is supposed to average at. You cannot know if white racism is raising it, having no effect (null) or lowering it? You can't say one way or the other. You also have no evidence that "white racism" is significantly affecting the nutritional choices of black Americans. I find it rather patronising you seem to think blacks are children who cannot make up their own minds as to what they eat - not to mention the Government school you love so much, provides nutritional food, to all children. Lastly, chocolate cities (and the mayor of NO likes to call them) are run by black Americans - not whites.

As for IQ, it seems reasonable to measure the IQ of *GASP* the average person living in Africa and assume this is what the average would be without white racism. Why not do that? That's what I did with E. Asians. Simply, and shockingly, go to E. Asia (yes, even in polluted, impoverished, poor noisy Slave-labor factory lead in the water China - you Chinese live on a fraction of what black American make in a year) and report their IQ average.

 

[iceaura]

Do you support the claim that white racism is significantly affecting the IQ of black people in the USA?

Not here. Here, on this thread, your absurd denial is simply an item of evidence itself - an illustration of the thread topic. It's not up for argument. You guys are fucked in the squash, as the saying goes, and that's the topic here.

I have posted a half dozen or more obvious, visible, known mechanisms by which white racism is statistically all but certain to have had some negative effect on the average IQ score of the US black population (how large an effect is unknown, since the IQ measurers do not control for any one of them, let alone the combinations).
- - -
No, you haven't

Yeah, I have. And pointed your attention directly to them.

And a store front for omega-3 isn't good evidence that white racism is affecting the IQ of anyone, including whites.

So? Not why I posted it.

As for IQ, it seems reasonable to measure the IQ of *GASP* the average person living in Africa and assume this is what the average would be without white racism.

No, that's stupid. You know even less about the environmental influences in Africa than you do about those in the US, you know less about the effects of white racism, and your IQ test is less accurate.

Simply, and shockingly, go to E. Asia (yes, even in polluted, impoverished, poor noisy Slave-labor factory lead in the water China - you Chinese live on a fraction of what black American make in a year) and report their IQ average.

All your assumptions about the Chinese environment are bs - you haven't maeasured any of that stuff, and none of your IQ tests have controlled for it. If I had to bet, I'd put my money on the average lead exposure of a black American child growing up in the 1970s being significantly greater than than that of the average Chinese child, for example (who didn't live in cities full of leaded gas cars and leaded window paint). Then go down the line: income inequality, stress, Vitamin D and omega 3, birth order, allergies, birthweight, educational emphasis, stereotype threat, sleep quality, etc etc etc - all favoring the Chinese child.

And so what? Jim Crow will not vanish from history because Chinese people have high IQs.

None of this crap from you makes your denial of Jim Crow the least bit more reasonable. The lengths you will go to avoid acknowledging it is the only visible contribution.

 

[Michael]

You no longer claim that white racism is affecting black people in the USA? You no longer claim that any differences in average IQ scores between whites, blacks or yellows have anything at all to do with white racism?

Not here. Here, on this thread,

Do you support the claim that differences in average IQ scores between whites, blacks or yellows have anything at all to do with white racism?

I'm not asking about "on this thread". It's a simple yes or no question.

 

[Michael]

No, that's stupid. You know even less about the environmental influences in Africa than you do about those in the US,

Gee, how fortunate for your hypothesis that white racism is affecting the IQ of black Americans living in the USA. Africa is a huge continent, with diverse cultures and diverse histories and diverse diets. I'm sure you can find an average, oh but you can't, because you're a science denier and are cherry picking data that best fits your hope, instead of following the cold hard facts and following the data to a scientific conclusion.

And now you claim China is less polluted than all of Africa???
LOL

You've complete lost the argument. Which means you should start in on the ad hominems anytime now.

 

[Michael]

the average Chinese child, for example (who didn't live in cities full of leaded gas cars and leaded window paint). Then go down the line: income inequality, stress, Vitamin D and omega 3, birth order, allergies, birthweight, educational emphasis, stereotype threat, sleep quality, etc etc etc - all favoring the Chinese child.

Magically, only favoring the spatial reasoning of the Chinese child, which is 110.

In reality, millions of Chinese were nearly starved to death by socialism, the heavy metal content of the water, the acid rain, the polluted waterways, and etc.... it's one of the noisiest, polluted countries in the world. And the food quality..... LOL, be careful what you eat in China.

I have a hypothesis that white guilt in middle-class old left leaning white people prevents them from following scientific data to a scientific conclusion when doing so shows clearly their ideology of progressive socialism has destroyed the very people they claim to want to help. AKA: Cognitive dissonance.

 

[iceaura]

Do you support the claim that differences in average IQ scores between whites, blacks or yellows have anything at all to do with white racism?

I'm not asking about "on this thread". It's a simple yes or no question

Answered above, at least five times (472, say). And it doesn't belong on this thread.

Front Page: Chicago has a 53% LITERACY RATE (2 schools named after Obamas).

Why do you believe sources that have done nothing but lie to you for your entire adult life? Why do you post claims about small ghetto areas and compare them with entire countries to determine overall trends in the first place? And why are you even trying to make this stupid claim? ( if you did succeed, you would have yet another piece of evidence for the influence of white racism on black accomplishment - unless you are claiming that genetic IQ tracks literacy?

24 pages later, you are still refusing to address the thread topic. It's your thread, dude.