hey - what about pedophilia, is it wrong?

i wouldn't really call what they have up there evidence. more of an argument against a certain view of pedophiles. certainly not an all encompasing argument at that.

I'm not even sure what they're trying to say there. are they trying to argue that no such sexual activity should be frowned upon because of an age difference? or that the concept of a pedophile is not very consistently understood.

if it's the latter than i agree. some people would call a 23yr old who gets with a 17yr old a pedophile. in some places that may seem plently normal and ok.


The media which usually reports bad news has helped to make pedophilia something evil by reporting rapes done by alleged pedophiles which many biblically ignorant people than associate as being inseperable from pedophiles who molest children.
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ok. i agree that there is a difference between a guy who finds 13 year olds atractive and a guy who goes so far as to sexually assualt them. but neither of them is great in my book. if you ask what's wrong with a guy being with a 13yr old then ask yourself that same question with increasingly smaller agers and tell me at whatpoint do it consider it wrong. the "logical"conlusion with the idea that pedophelia is ok is that being with a child of ANY age is ok.
 
I think if your looking for an answer not from the view of "Personal beleifs" or whatever...

Look at evolution and geneology.
To continue and expand a gene pool one would not procreate with ones offspring as this causes inbreeding and serious health risks.
Plus the fact that Breeding originally was created to create offspring and continue a race.
Therefore having intercourse with a child below the age of puberty would not result in the continuation of a race.
Then combining the two; one would not seek to procreate with offspring or in anything not resulting in child birth.

In history girls just entering puberty would be married off to bear children and be wives. So Historically this was more or less acceptable. But I think as society, ethics and understanding of the human body evolves we learn that while technically physically able to bear children doesn't mean it is healthy. We also do not have such a strong need to maintain bloodlines and survival. There for causing birthrates tp decrease and marriageable age older.

Now pedophilia itself is really up to societies definition. In a place like north america it can be defined as either fantasizing or engaging in sexual events with a person who is below the legal age of consent.
Its also defined as Fant. or Engag. with person below the age of puberty.
Of course Range of age is an issue. ie: 18 -> 16 vs. 25-> 16, or 43 -> 16.

My view is not so much the pedophilia is WRONG persay, just that it is no longer a socially accepted or globally viable alternative in modern society. And that something has perhaps gone awray in the course of said persons development if they feel that Pedophilia is a viable alternative/option in modern westernized society.
 
Paedophillia is a cancer on our society. Any man/woman who could ever choose this path no longer has the right to be part of of humanity. Personally, I would throw the culprits to the parents of the victims and let them deal with it. These people are evil and no matter what the libertanians say, I say let them die, slowly.
 
"I would throw the culprits to the parents of the victims and let them deal with it. "

in most cases the parents are the perps

;)
 
"I became aware long ago of a recent confusion and hypocrisy in caucasian cultures towards pedophilia (the sexual attraction towards kids [humans who havn't reached puberty]), its definition, and pedophiles." David Knight

Well I think Mr. Knight should change his statement by replacing "caucasion" with "western". As if people of color are more down with the idea of pedophilia. Stupid idiot.

I am in agreement with Cyberia who made some very good points. But having sex with a child is WRONG because the child has no CHOICE when they are perputrated upon by an adult who has POWER over the child. Think about it? How could a seven year old enjoy performing fellatio to an adult? Or coitus? The pedophile is like the rapist who deludes themself into thinking the other is enjoying or 'wants it'. The only person who is having any enjoyment is the pedophile who USES innocence (while also taking it away) for their own enjoyment. If pedophilia was harmless then why does it impact the victim in such a way that they develop trauma?
 
I think that one of the big things that makes it so wrong is the fact that an adult has power over a child, yes. They call it statutory rape for a reason, to a child adults have authority which is, for the most part, unquestionable, if an adult starts encouraging them to do lewd things there certainly going to be more responsive than a fully formed adult.

No healthy relationship could be formed out of a bond like this, especially if the child is pre-pubescent, they just aren't supposed to be doing these things with ANYONE yet, they just aren't physically ready, and wont be emotionally or mentally ready for such a thing for even longer still. When it comes down to it, no child could really be called a consenting partner, even if they do say yes, they simply aren't qualified to make that decision, lusting after children is more like wanting a little living sex toy than wanting a partner, and no person should ever have to be in that position.
 
Things are much different between two consenting adults, because so long as they really are both consenting neither can really be a "Sex toy" as it were, even if they both get off on the fantasy, or one is noteably much more submisive to the other. The only exception may be in a sort of abusive relationship where one person has become sort of emotionaly dependent and subsurviant to the other, in that situation we have the same sort of authority situation as with a child, the other person really CAN'T say no. At that point, even when they say yes they aren't really in a mental state to give consent in a rational way, its kind of like brain washing.
 
Mystech:

I am not sure if can agree with you. I mean if someone is in an unhealthy relationship (and I have been there) they still have to take responsibility. I mean the person may behave like a child but they are no longer a child-victim. Can you elaborate a little more so I can better understand the statement?
 
I think she's saying that the person is responsible unless they are in a mental state causing them to be unable to comprhend or understand the full situation.

ie: Brain washing, forms of amnesia, autistic, under the effects of a mind altering substance (that they administered themself) or even severe severe depression.

What she described was also severe overattachement. Where they would be fearing to say no becuase of... oh say abandonment...

Or the situation could be caused by the other partner in which case it can legally be called rape. (brain washing, drugs, abuse etc.)

There's a difference between behaving like a child and having the mental capacity of a child.
 
To Cyberia who explained:

" Brain washing, forms of amnesia, autistic, under the effects of a mind altering substance (that they administered themself) or even severe severe depression.

What she described was also severe overattachement. Where they would be fearing to say no becuase of... oh say abandonment...

Okay someone who is autistic is not responsible for their behaviour in this regard, but brainwashing? I say you have to allow yourself to be OPEN enough for another to brainwash you. Other human beings do not hold some magic spell over our minds. And as for depression, drug abuse or overattachement for fear of being abandoned, well (and please don't think I am being insensitive because I understand both states of being) we are all RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHOICES WE MAKE. When one is an adult, even if they have not emotionally grown up sufficiently they are still responsible for their actions and the consequences of those actions. No other human being holds a magic spell over us unless we CHOOSE to give them that power.
 
I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying they are not responsible for the choices they make entering these states but once in this state they are no longer in a state of mind in which they can have logical or cognitive processes of reason.

and I think you misunderstand brain washing. Yes there is the whole being open part but often being open to suggestion is not something we can consciously control. Often the open-ness to suggestion is a predetermined element in the personality. and it doesn't have to be a whole mystical or institutional process. Simply a weak minded person in an over powering relationship with a partner constantly feeding them disinformation can be enough to "brainwash" a partner into submissive situations they would not have put themselves into.

Look at cults for an example they are usually constructed of many weak minded individuals who are brought into a community and gradually immersed in a set of beleifs. Often there is no force.

ie: a Typical cult entrance.

subject would come in contact with recruiting members of the cult who would gradually bring them into a group allowing them to feel like they belong. and gradually introduce ideas and philosophies in a way such as that the subject would not think to refute the evidence. Then gradually isolate that person from the outside world by convincing them to avoid and then cut off familial ties. Often times the person would be in constant companionship so that they would not have time to sit and think through new information and thoughts.

That's another example of how brainwashing would occur.

But again there is a major difference between someone choosing to be subserviant while in complete control of their actions and someone who is not in control of their actions trying to make any decision.
 
ok. i agree that there is a difference between a guy who finds 13 year olds atractive and a guy who goes so far as to sexually assualt them. but neither of them is great in my book. if you ask what's wrong with a guy being with a 13yr old then ask yourself that same question with increasingly smaller agers and tell me at whatpoint do it consider it wrong. the "logical"conlusion with the idea that pedophelia is ok is that being with a child of ANY age is ok. - quote

the problem with asking oneself at which point it is wrong is that not everyone has the answer. For the record, the answer is, "It is not wrong in and of itself." From my Christian perspective and biblical, lusting after anyone is wrong whom you arent married too. That includes children or adults. It isn't anymore wrong to lust (be sexually atracted too) after a kid anymore than to a teen or adult, because there is no God given law that says so or implies this. The is one part of the bible in which Paul the apostle says you should wait until the person you intend to marry has reached the "flowering of her age" at the very least that means puberty. But notice he does not villify anyone by saying something like, "You sicko you think that kid is attractive! Stay away from her do not marry her or look at her get out and stay away from out church!" The reason being again, the answer to lust shared between two persons (Christian persons in the biblical context) is to get married or wait to marry eachother in general.

So it isn't a matter of at what age does it become wrong, but that it is wrong to lust after someone you are married too. Now remember I am speaking from God's laws, not wordly opinions which are in continuous flux and contradictory and often without evidence.
 
But notice he does not villify anyone by saying something like, "You sicko you think that kid is attractive! Stay away from her do not marry her or look at her get out and stay away from out church!" The reason being again, the answer to lust shared between two persons (Christian persons in the biblical context) is to get married or wait to marry eachother in general.
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Your missing one huge point:

CONSENT

Hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.....

Its wrong. Its morally wrong. I dont give a rats ass if morals are subjective or not, you dont screw a 4 year old. Doesn't matter if Paul specified it or not, its wrong. Period.

So it isn't a matter of at what age does it become wrong, but that it is wrong to lust after someone you are married too.
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Your delusional. Go back and read your bible.:rolleyes:
 
(stupid compy deleted my first try so here goes round two at this)

"The reason being again, the answer to lust shared between two persons (Christian persons in the biblical context) is to get married or wait to marry eachother in general. "

But you just said lust of someone whom you are not married to is wrong. Therefore these two unmarried people are wrong and guilty of a sin.

As for Paul not saying "dude this is wrong you sicko" He implys that it is indeed wrong by saying not to take someone beofre the "flowering of her age". Therefore by saying it is evil would be redundent.
and if you beleive the Bible to be literal go talk to your preist and say "I beleive everything in the bible is literal" and see whether her just doesn't laugh til heads roll and then kick you onto the street for being a dumbass.
The bible is a book teaching positive and empowering ways to live your life (ie: don't steal, don't kill people etc.) along with lessons that were imperitive to the day (ie: don't eat pig -> don't eat pig because we as a society have not developed a way to sanitarily kill cook and clean it so it is good for us to eat.

and the article you listed is in fact harming you argument as it is condoning Pedophilia, sexual activity and using weak arguments such as "westerners are hippocrits" to back themselves up.

and with comments like:
"Most men know that they are and have been attracted to kids, this isn't something out of the ordinary"

"Kids, just like adults have sexually attractive features, there is no known reason why adults would not be attracted to kids any less than adults."

"If you watch men's eyes around female kids who you percieve as beautiful or pretty, you will notice they give the beautiful ones they same type of stares and attention they would a sexually attractive woman."

How can you even allow yourself as an obvious christian to be associated with this material? Not only does it condone pedophilia and sexual promiscuity it condems the church for its teachings.

"Treat younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity." - Timothy

considering the context of this article is this quote saying we should view younger women (whom apparently almost all men are atracted to) as sisters? Incest too?

But again it all comes down to consent. and being in a mental state to make clear judgement. Even if say a 12 year old girl is forced into marriage to a 20 year old man (legal in Carolina as 12 is the legal age for marriage) This 12 year old cannot possibly be physically capable to handle the physical possibility of becoming pregnant or the mental decisions to consent to sexual intercourse.
 
Originally posted by Lucysnow
Mystech:

I am not sure if can agree with you. I mean if someone is in an unhealthy relationship (and I have been there) they still have to take responsibility. I mean the person may behave like a child but they are no longer a child-victim. Can you elaborate a little more so I can better understand the statement?
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Well, I fully understand that the responsibility of ones own wellbeing always rests with themselves, however some people truly are in mental states in which they can not fully understand this idea. I don't like the term mentally weak, though you could use it, psychology generally recognizes these people as codependents. They will make their own choice to stay in an abusive relationship, because they feel they have no other choice, be it from a fear of abandonment, or what have you, but still, just because someone is willing to stay with someone who treats them wrong, doesn't mean that it's right for them to be abused.

Children, by nature, are codependents, that's just the relationship they have with adults, they genuinely can not survive on their own, and need an adult to care for them. As such they very easily look at adults with an almost godlike awe, don't you remember thinking that your dad was the strongest man in the world, when you were a kid, or that nothing bad could ever happen to you so long as your parents were around? This is the way children see things, and that's why it's very very wrong to try to engage in any sexual activity with them, if you're such a big authority figure in their life, and they really don't have any other experience in life other than obeying and trusting adults, then what kind of relationship do you think that's going t form? It's completely self serving to the adult, and to the child mentally damaging. Kids aren't sex toys, and if you try to use your position as an adult to make them do lewd things with you, that's how you're treating them.

OH! and one more thing, just for the record, I'm a man. I don't mind feminine pronouns directed at me in the bedroom, but please, not in public.
 
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sorry must comment on that article again

"Do not mistreat an alien or opress him" - God
hehe I don't know what relevance that has to anything in this discussion it really sounds like it should be in the Pseudoscience forum :D

People will quote anything if they think it'll support their argument!

in fact 98% of all statistics are made up on the spot!:D
 
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