Heaven is a boring idea.

J

JustARide

America: 51% fucking idiots
Registered Senior Member
Heaven.

To hear most Christians describe it, believers will be treated to an eternity of worship services in the presence of the Almighty. We hear talk of eternal bliss and unending peace with the Lord.

I have one question: where's the fun in that?

Every shot is a hole-in-one? Every note is played perfectly? No wild debates about the meaning of backwards-talking dwarves in David Lynch films? All mystery is wiped away?

I'll pass.

Even if Heaven is one eternal orgasm, wouldn't that get old eventually? (OK, maybe not, but...) Without mystery, even an afterlife of happiness would become monotonous - as any reason for thinking would be lost.

Heaven is too obvious. It's like the denoument of a Jerry Bruckheimer film - easy, predictable, and fun for about a minute.

Josh

====================
"It's just a ride." - Bill Hicks
====================
 
Last edited:
JustARide said:
Heaven.

To hear most Christians describe it, believers will be treated to an eternity of worship services in the presence of the Almighty. We hear talk of eternal bliss and unending peace with the Lord.

I have one question: where's the fun in that?

Every shot is a hole-in-one? Every note is played perfectly? No wild debates about the meaning of backwards-talking dwarves in David Lynch films? All mystery is wiped away?

I'll pass.

Even if Heaven is one eternal orgasm, wouldn't that get old eventually? (OK, maybe not, but...) Without mystery, even an afterlife of happiness would become monotonous - as any reason for thinking would be lost.

Heaven is too obvious. It's like the denoument of a Jerry Bruckheimer film - easy, predictable, and fun for about a minute.

Josh

====================
"It's just a ride." - Bill Hicks
====================
Click to expand...
Heaven may seem boring, but it isn't cause boring isn't a nice feeling. I think God have enough wisdom to keep us happy, "Behold, I make everything new!"
 
JustARide:
I have thought that since I was a kid.
What fun is existence without risk, learning, danger, excitement...
How much could you really enjoy sitting on a cloud all day playing a celtic harp?
The only explanation that Christians could offer (which, admittedly does make sense on some level, but not enough to make me lose the thought) is that you would not be who you are now when you are in Heaven.
You would not be a person, and not even think the same way you do now, so there is no way you would have any idea what it would be like in an eternal paradise.
After all, it would not be paradise unless you were eternally blissfully happy, therfore, boredom itself could not even exist.
*shrugs* Like I said, it DOES make some sense, but not enough to sell me on the idea.
I'll take what's behind door number two, Bob.
 
one_raven:

That's about the only explanation I've ever heard from Christians as well, though I find little support for that belief in the Bible itself. With such an anthropomorphized God running the show, visions of Heaven also seem to be merely reflections of what we might consider the "best" of life on Earth (i.e., streets of gold, etc.) and not some truly transcendent reality, where all human perception melts away into a new "pure energy," one-with-the-Tao kind of existence. (That might answer my boredom question.)

It would be impossible to predict what being "spirit" would feel like, or even if it involves "feeling" at all. I guess the central problem for me is this: I enjoy thinking, questioning, interpreting, wondering, imagining, making fun of things, criticizing, and creating. None of those things, it seems, would be neccessary in the Christian version of Heaven.

In fact, I would rather meet God and have him say, "Well, to be quite honest, I'm not sure how this whole thing works either."

I guess I prefer David Lynch to Jerry Bruckheimer;)

Josh

====================
"It's just a ride." - Bill Hicks
====================
 
JustARide said:
I have one question: where's the fun in that?

I'll pass.

====================
"It's just a ride." - Bill Hicks
====================
Click to expand...

So, you're saying Hell will be an exciting place for you? we'll get to see just who is right, 'bon voyage'
 
Randolfo said:
So, you're saying Hell will be an exciting place for you? we'll get to see just who is right, 'bon voyage'
Click to expand...
----------
M*W: Come on, people! None of you xians have seen heaven, and it's a good bet that you won't. Heaven is NOT A PLACE you go to in eternal bliss, and hell is not a lake of fire. Heaven and Hell are in your own soul. It's YOUR CHOICE, not some judgmental demi-god savior. You people sound like little children in some Sunday school class. You ARE adults now, aren't you? Quit believing in magical realms and unicorns and knights in shining armor. Heaven is NOT someplace YOU GO TO, it's what's in your heart NOW! If you've created a hell on earth, then you'll be in hell. If you've created a heaven on earth, then you'll be in heaven. There's no hell under the ground and heaven in the sky! That's for children's books. You're all grown up now, I hope. Start thinking like an adult.
 
Well, Medicine Woman.
I am pleased that you know so well all the truths of the universe and the soul.
I can stop searching now, I just have to ask the all-knowing Oracle! :)

What is God's REAL name, by the way, oh great Oracle?
 
So, you're saying Hell will be an exciting place for you? we'll get to see just who is right, 'bon voyage'​

No, Randolfo, I'm saying the Heaven Christians often susbscribe to seems to be a childish, idealized destination that does not really present any attractive qualities for those of us who enjoy intellectual activities.

So perhaps - just perhaps - Heaven, as it is often presented, merely represents the combined writing talents of some 2000-year-old authors who sat around thinking: "Hmmm, we really like gold down here. So, logically, streets in Heaven must be made of gold."

And if the Bible had been written yesterday, streets of gold would simply be replaced with plasma screen TVs and whatever else we happen to currently "enjoy" - all the while, leaving out the very things that make existence interesting.

Josh

====================
"It's just a ride." - Bill Hicks
====================
 
My two cents....
It has often amused me when I thinl of all the various religions devoted to death. IN fact live life only for what happens after life and not life itself.

The Buddhist devote their lives to death. The Christians can't wait to die and go to Heaven. Geesh!!! is there any one who wants to live life and not live death.

Heaven is here and now, not there and later.

Heaven is also in the eye of the beholder.
 
It seems most of you - Christians and non-Christians alike - have forgotten that Jesus already established the Kingdom of God among us. We are already "being born into it".

The problem you seem to have with heaven is that it seems to represent everything people would like the world to be without actually living in such a world. For example, a common question is "why would God allow suffering?", but in the same breath you say "I enjoy thinking, questioning, interpreting, wondering, imagining, making fun of things, criticizing, and creating..."

What if your thinking differs from someone else's? What if they question your way of life, interpret your actions differently, wonder whether you are a threat to their fun and imagination, and they start criticizing you or start creating things that you don't like? It can immediately turn a wonderful life into a miserable one - and both parties can claim "innocense", after all - you are both just exercising your rights. The difference would be whether love was involved or not.

The best description of heaven is where different people are succesful in living in peace, where lamb and lion lie down together. God made such a kingdom available - twice. People have corrupted the first one to a point where it seemed that God had abdicated His throne, but in the second creation God has returned to the throne. And it is one that will be incorruptible and will tolerate no corruption. We already have part of it. It means applying ourselves to what is good and commendable, and to resist what is not. God didn't remove suffering from the world, instead He gave us the power to. It is while living life that you realize what heaven might be like.
 
If Medicine Women can be so sure about the universe, then so can I ;)

I think it's rather obvious that the idea of heaven is human-created. Desire of constant euphoria... Desire for life after death... yep, sounds pretty human-inspired.

Though, hypothetically, heaven would probably be rather enjoyable... agreeing with those that one_raven described.
 
Well we have to understand that the NT - which 'prescribed' this whole after-life, was written at a time when there really was some shit going in the world. Imagine being a slave, fought to fight in a gladiator ring, knowing damn well that you were going to die that very day. The need for a second life becomes apparent and an absolute. Let's move on through the ages to modern day.. cancer, aids, etc all plague our subconcious. We could die at any given moment- and what of our families? What of my daughter who loves her father, my wife who loves her husband? Ah it is only normal to 'hope' that you will meet them again, because 'dragging' me away from them right now is enough to make a man lose his mind. I can't 'live' without my wife and daughter- what if one of them was taken away from me without warning, without having had the chance to say goodbye? The idea in a heaven is warranted because we as humans need there to be one. The OT god at least had the idea right though.. there were no streets paved with gold, people simply died and stayed dead.

As for lions lying down with lambs... You'd have to make the lion something other than a lion - in which case it isn't itself anymore, and the whole value of a heaven goes right out the window.
 
Jenyar:

Well, I never asked "Why does God allow suffering?" so I'm assuming you simply had a bone to pick there.

All I'm saying is that Heaven (a world of perfect peace) is incompatible with the elements that make existence worthwhile. It lacks intrigue.

In music theory, you learn that most western music is a product of tension and resolution. For instance, a C chord by itself is boring (listen to some Steve Reich if you need proof). Put a G7 before it and you create tension that (if you follow the standard rules) must resolve. Heaven, it seems to me, would be one long C chord for eternity.

You're absolutely correct that this tension inevitably results in conflict and it is humanity's duty to eradicate it. But Heaven negates all that by creating a world where, to use your words "different people are successful in living in peace." Well, what about stand-up comedy? Where does some of the best material come from? Mistrust, hatred, annoyance, anger, insult, etc. I posit that nothing will be funny in Heaven because Heaven will be too PC. Complete peace does not breed humor. Hence, the noticeable deficit of trappist monk comedy festivals.

You can also read our dissatisfaction in the prospects of Heaven by our media, our books, our movies. How many movies focus on Heaven? Not many. Why? Because it's boring. Hell, on the other hand, has been done to death and will continue to be simply due to the fact that vampires will always be more interesting than angels.

Josh

=====================
"It's just a ride." - Bill Hicks
=====================
 
Last edited:
one_raven said:
Well, Medicine Woman.
I am pleased that you know so well all the truths of the universe and the soul.
I can stop searching now, I just have to ask the all-knowing Oracle! :)

What is God's REAL name, by the way, oh great Oracle?
Click to expand...
----------
M*W: Unfortunately, you can never stop searching. I'm still searching. The more I search, the more I become aware of. I don't pretend to know it all. I wish I did. Then I'd be rich. I can state my beliefs on spiritual matters, but if you start believing what I say, you'll stop searching and, consequently, lose your own way. Sure, it's okay to read what others have to say, but you should judge what is right for YOU. If something makes sense to you, then pursue it, but never blindly believe anyone else without doing your own search! If you choose to believe what I believe, I'm happy knowing I'm not alone in the universe. There is someone of like mind with me, but NEVER stop searching.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top