Health Care Bill Debate

Every little thing the reflex does ....

Asguard said:

... it just takes will
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And therein, sir, lies the problem. The flesh is willing, insofar as among our cultural characteristics is to wish and strive for a better world. But the spirit, as I'm sure you're aware—well, it's what we might call a question mark.
 
There is a visceral fear on the Right that Obama will be a successful President. They have become a deeply-insecure polity (with manipulators amplifying the alarm) and are pulling out all the stops in an obstructionist panic. Elite manipulators of the rabble are concerned (with good reasons) about the potential reversal of the trend in concentration of wealth and power in the USA. Healthcare reform is not about the redistribution of wealth, but the larger, pervasive fight is over the defense of greed and selfishness.
 
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Excellent example of how the right-wing rumble is a knee-jerking stampede, rather than thoughtful participation in national debate and reform.
 
Who is the Astroturf in the Town Halls===Democrats

Yes, the Democrats are the ones who are bring the Astroturf and lay it at the Town Hall Meetings.

obama-commie-flag3.gif


http://rightsoup.com/

I imagine most of you have watched the video from Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee’s Town Hall in Texas…the one where she’s SO concerned about her constituents that she yaps on her cell phone during the meeting. Rudeness galore. Well, it seems Ms. Chatty had MORE than a Blackberry with her at the gathering.

A woman who identified herself as Dr. Roxana Mayer, a physician who does not live in Jackson Lee’s district, praised the Dem’s health care plan. Funny, because most of the physicians I know, and those I’ve seen interviewed…don’t much like Obamacare. Nonetheless, Dr. Mayer said:

“I don’t know what there is in the bill that creates such panic.”

In this video from the event, Mayer claims to be a general practitioner, eliciting applause and even a hug from Chatty Sheila.

ObamaCare Peddlers Plant a Faux Doctor in Town Hall for Sheila 'My Cell Phone' Jackson Lee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8fF...ZuvQ-3uvY&index=0&playnext=1&playnext_from=RL

Good thing the Lone Star Times didn’t buy this crap hook line and sinker! They thought it smelled, well, FISHY. From the astute reporter:

I’m not sure why, but something didn’t smell right. So my colleagues and I did a little digging, and wouldn’t you know it? Roxana Mayer is, like, totally not a doctor.

But she is an Obama campaign volunteer.

Our own David Jennings secured a phone interview, in which Mayer admitted to impersonating a physician, saying — get this — she thought it would help her credibility. (It didn’t.)

Now here’s where it spins off into a whole new dimension of weird. See the bug-eyed woman seated behind not-doctor Mayer?

Look familiar?

Yes, that little ray of sunshine, who accompanied Mayer to the meeting, is none other than Maria Isabel, the unhinged moonbat who ran a Barack Obama campaign office, complete with Che Guevara flag.

Hell, she’s even wearing the exact same outfit she wore the last time we mocked her!

A word of advice to budding political operatives: when you need two plants, try to pick people smarter than actual plants.

TWO plants! I am just shocked. SHOCKED, I say!! The Houston Chronicle had to update it’s glowing account to admit that

Mayer identified herself as a physician who does not live in Jackson Lee’s district. However, her name does not appear in the database maintained by the Texas Medical Board, which licenses all doctors in Texas.

Perhaps we should start calling these get-togethers “Health Care Greenhouses.”
 
The phone call was to a special health care hotline so she could answer a specific question. Rep. Jackson was not just gossiping on her cell.

If this woman, Mayer is lying, then she deserves to be called out for it. That doesn't take away from all the blatant lies being told by the right.
 
Rules:

1. You must read the HR 3200 health care bill:
energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf

2. If you find fault with the bill state the page and section where the individuals faults with the bill are, as well as quote it and then explain way you feel that is wrong.

Noticing how everyone has talked so much about it yet has presented so little actually about it I figure there is a lot of hype and not to much knowledge, so read the bill before putting it down. I also bet this thread won't get much traction because everyone is so lazy they rather plug ideology then actually spend the energy to read it.

TO MODS: Please delete all comments that do not obey the above rules or do not pertain to a post that obeyed the rules, the first post is of course the exception.
 
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joepistole said:
Dittoheads are not saying that Stephen Hawkings could not survive socialized medicine. This comes as news to Professor Hawkins as he has been in a socialized medical system since his birth and he seems to not only be alive but have a diffferent opinion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...evil-Orwellian-high-level-US-politicians.html
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This is a perfect example of misrepresenting the truth.

First, yes, Hawking survived his medical condition in a socialized care program. However, he would survived in a private program as well. You know it don't deny it.

Second, most likely a part of your point is that it would work in America because it worked for Hawking in England. That is probably a true statement, as when Hawking contracted ALS he was 21 under the, now pulled from the bill, death panel (for lack of a better term); he would have survived because he had more life to live than someone much, much older.

Nice try joe, but you must add this attempt to your long list of failures. I also see that you have minions following you around. They have been duped like their leader. Apparently, they are so used to reading talking point memos that the english language confuses them when it is written from a first person point of view.

Which BTW reminds I did noticed the clarity with which you wrote your post. I am guessing this was another cut and paste post initiated by your leader.
 
John T. Galt said:
death panel (for lack of a better term)
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There are lots of better terms, and you know it.

Let me tell you a story.

My good friend worked teaching martial arts for 20 years and he could not afford health care. He left the studio and got a job at Wall-Mart where after a certain amount of time, he got health care coverage. 2 weeks later, he collapsed in his apartment and was taken to the hospital, where his heart failed, twice. He was put into a protective coma for several weeks. It turns out he had Graves Disease, where your thyroid does not function properly. Most people find this out from their doctor and the thyroid is removed, and you have to be on special drugs for life.

He had to get a pacemaker installed, but he survived. He had to learn to walk and talk again, but he made a remarkable recovery, probably due to his excellent physical shape. He went back to work, but his health insurace from Wall-Mart refused to pay his over $100,000 bill because they said he had a pre-existing condition. He had to declare bankruptcy, and now his credit is ruined. He found he could no longer work, and applied for social security disability. Now he is dependent on the state.

If he had had health care all his life, they would have caught his condition and he would be treated and a functional earning member of society. As it is now, he is disabled and cannot work. This is a man who , before this incident, could escape from a straitjacket fastened by two strong men, underwater. This is a man who defended his two female friends from a knife attack empty handed and won.

He had health insurance, and for his trouble he is now unemployed for life and permanently disabled.

And guess what? He's a republican.
 
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Geoff said:
Ice, this is Western politics. Both use lies and thuggery. It merely depends how the event turns out.
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Please provide an example of lying and thuggery in characteristic use on the non-Republican side of the public health care debate.

The behavior you have to match is the lying about "death panels" and Nazi euthanasia and injuries sustained at the hands of "liberals" and other Fox ballyhoo, and the thuggery of the town hall events and various vandalisms, death threats, etc.
 
Well, how about busing in Acorn reps?

And thuggery has been used in times past by the left, too, ice.
 
There is absolutely nothing devious about ACORN, even though the right likes to make them their boogeyman.
 
geoff said:
Well, how about busing in Acorn reps?

And thuggery has been used in times past by the left, too, ice.
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Peanuts, by comparison. Order of magnitude difference. For one thing, there hasn't been any such "left" for a generation or more.

And irrelevant.
Ice, this is Western politics. Both use lies and thuggery. It merely depends how the event turns out.
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Please provide an example of lying and thuggery in characteristic use on the non-Republican side of the public health care debate.
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Maybe you can find a few of those incidents where a guy was walking around with a handgun just outside a Bush fundraiser waving a sign that said the tree of liberty needed feeding with the blood of tyrants and patriots, something like that.
 
"No such left"...? Are you mad, man? Universities. Protests. Marches and office occupations. Huge voter swing.

Come on. The nation's not gaining anything by the pretense of our side at the exclusive claim to good.
 
John T. Galt said:
This is a perfect example of misrepresenting the truth.

First, yes, Hawking survived his medical condition in a socialized care program. However, he would survived in a private program as well. You know it don't deny it.

Second, most likely a part of your point is that it would work in America because it worked for Hawking in England. That is probably a true statement, as when Hawking contracted ALS he was 21 under the, now pulled from the bill, death panel (for lack of a better term); he would have survived because he had more life to live than someone much, much older.

Nice try joe, but you must add this attempt to your long list of failures. I also see that you have minions following you around. They have been duped like their leader. Apparently, they are so used to reading talking point memos that the english language confuses them when it is written from a first person point of view.

Which BTW reminds I did noticed the clarity with which you wrote your post. I am guessing this was another cut and paste post initiated by your leader.
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OH MY GOD, I must really be challenging you. :) Have you got any specfics? Of course you don't because you never do. The truth can sometimes hurt, but trust me it is good for you!

I cited an article that refuted an article in that said Stephen Hawkins would have died if he had British socialized healthcare. The fact is Hawkins has always had British socialized healthcare and he thinks it is quite good. In fact he, Hawkins, states he would not have survived without it the British Healthcare system.

So tell me what about that is false? In the US, he might not have survived that is not clear. If he would have gone on welfare in the US his healthcare would have been funded. But probably would not have been able to pursue his education nor work because of welfare restrictions. And that is the point, a lot of people are forced into welfare because of their health and that is a sad state of affairs.

As for the rest of your post, shear fantasy land. I hope you are not doing drugs because you have some crazy delusional stuff in there. :)
 
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geoff said:
"No such left"...? Are you mad, man? Universities. Protests. Marches and office occupations. Huge voter swing.

Come on. The nation's not gaining anything by the pretense of our side at the exclusive claim to good.
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Not claiming "good". Pointing to bad.

And not exclusive. Order of magnitude difference. Even way back last generation when all that stuff was seen on the left, the thuggery from the Klan and the paramilitary police and the fundies and the rightwing "militia" groups outdid it. Count the patients in the hospital, the assassinations, the prosecutions by the authorities, by political "side".

And nowdays of course it's essentially one way all the time.

"One side" is using lies and thuggery as important, characteristic, effective tactics. The "other side" is not.
 
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