Health Care Bill Debate

Let's not limit it to Republican lies, there are plenty to go around on both sides. Here's a good one from an Obama supporter who claimed to be a physician attending a town hall meeting to support Obama's plan but turned out to be an Obama campaign worker who wasn't even a doctor!

In this video, Mayer claims to be a general practitioner, eliciting applause and even a hug from Queen Sheila:

I’m not sure why, but something didn’t smell right. So my colleagues and I did a little digging, and wouldn’t you know it? Roxana Mayer is, like, totally not a doctor.

But she is an Obama campaign volunteer.

Our own David Jennings secured a phone interview, in which Mayer admitted to impersonating a physician, saying — get this — she thought it would help her credibility. (It didn’t.)
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joepistole said:
I look forward to seeing a long list of debunked lies because frankly of the many things Republicans and their masters in the healthcare industry are saying about healthcare reform in the US, I have never found one truthful statement...not even one!
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That statement is patently untrue. Let's pick an easy one. Opponents of Obamacare complain it will cost too much and add to our debt, Obama claims to want a plan that's "revenue neutral". The nonpartisan CBO says Obama's plan will add one trillion dollars to our national debt, others estimate the cost to be as high as 2.4 trillion. So who's lying? Does that qualify as the insurance companies/Republicans telling the truth in your book?
 
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furthermore, if a bluedog cannot toe the party line, what use is he? the tards might as well join the facist party. i suggest bribing them with pork or beating them into submission and come 2010, throwing them to the wolves.
screw em

Besides poor electoral math, the Netroots ignore the important role that Blue Dog Democrats play in intra-Party dynamics. House Democrats have already moved too far to the left on trade, foreign policy and domestic spending. Maybe not this election, but at some point, these liberal positions will most likely come back to bite Democrats. It has been a lesson time and time again that as soon as the Democrats go too far to the left, they get crushed in presidential and Congressional elections witness the 1968 riots, the 1972 McGovern campaign or 1988s disastrous Michael Dukakis campaign.(link)

bullshit
we are here to legislate a progressive agenda and not to simply stay in power.

Greenwald argues that the Democrats have failed to stand up to President Bush on issues like Iraq, spending and FISA, which then gives Americans a low opinion of Congress. Greenwald wants to target Blue Dogs seats and run more liberal primary challengers. He trumpets the case of Georgia Rep. John Barrow, a well-known Blue Dog who received considerable pressure from leftist political action committees and faced a primary challenger.

Barrow won the primary by a huge margin, but nevertheless Greenwald seems thrilled that he had to devote far more resources to defending his seat for November. That is what it means to attach a price to trampling on the political values of Democratic supporters. Making it tough for Democrats to win Republican-leaning districts seems to be his mission.

win and fucking do what? oppose us by pandering to republican sentiments? get the hell out of my party, frikkin turncoats
 
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Gustav said:
furthermore, if a bluedog cannot toe the party line, what use is he? the tards might as well join the facist party. i suggest bribing them with pork or beating them into submission and come 2010, throwing them to the wolves.
screw em
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LoL !

Why not just get rid of the entire Congress and just let the Ossiah and his "Czars" run everything.

No need for any more pesky Presidential elections, either. After all, "The One" has ascended to His throne.

Is not the Kingdom of Heaven upon us ?

:rolleyes:
 
I am still waiting for republikan solution to health care... the party of NO should represent their solution. One of the joker from Fox news said on TV that American public doesn't deserve a good health care system. I think he was Bill kristol or something.
 
madanthonywayne said:
Let's not limit it to Republican lies, there are plenty to go around on both sides. Here's a good one from an Obama supporter who claimed to be a physician attending a town hall meeting to support Obama's plan but turned out to be an Obama campaign worker who wasn't even a doctor!

In this video, Mayer claims to be a general practitioner, eliciting applause and even a hug from Queen Sheila:

I’m not sure why, but something didn’t smell right. So my colleagues and I did a little digging, and wouldn’t you know it? Roxana Mayer is, like, totally not a doctor.

But she is an Obama campaign volunteer.
Our own David Jennings secured a phone interview, in which Mayer admitted to impersonating a physician, saying — get this — she thought it would help her credibility. (It didn’t.)
​
source?
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Oh, so how is asking a question telling a lie? It the person was an imposter as you clam, how is the act of asking a question of the speaker or getting a hug from the speaker a lie about healthcare reform. Simply put, it is not.
madanthonywayne said:
That statement is patently untrue. Let's pick an easy one. Opponents of Obamacare complain it will cost too much and add to our debt, Obama claims to want a plan that's "revenue neutral". The nonpartisan CBO says Obama's plan will add one trillion dollars to our national debt, others estimate the cost to be as high as 2.4 trillion. So who's lying? Does that qualify as the insurance companies/Republicans telling the truth in your book?
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Again where is the lie here? I have not yet heard anything from the Republicans and their allies in the healthare industry about healthcare reform that was not a lie or distortion.

As you point out, the nonpartisan CBO (Congressional Budget Office) estimates that it will cost 1 trillion over 10 years, roughly 100 billion dollars a year for 10 years. Repbulicans and their allies in the healthcare industry have claimed it will cost 2.4 trillion with little in support of those claims. The CBO only looks at program cost, and in this case likely over estimates the actual cost of the program because it ignores productivity improvements in the healthcare system brought about by healthcare reform legislation like automated record keeping and document management systems and other productivity and quality improvements...e.g. best practices management.


Obama has said on numberous times that he will redirect funding for existing programs to cover 2/3's of the estimated cost. Obama has proposed limiting the charitable deduction to the maximum that those earning less than 250k per year can claim for the deduction. So Obama has said it healthcare reform must be revenue neutral meaning that it does not add money to the national debt. Obama has not lied. The non partisan CBO estimated the cost and Obama laid out how it would be paid for in a revenue neutral manner. Sorry Mad, no lie there. The lie is in claiming that the supporters of healthcare refom lied.
 
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joepistole said:
Oh, so how is asking a question telling a lie? It the person was an imposter as you clam, how is the act of asking a question of the speaker or getting a hug from the speaker a lie about healthcare reform. Simply put, it is not.
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Claiming to be a physician there to demonstrate support for ObamaCare among physicians when you are, in fact, an Obama activfist and not a physician at all is lying.
 
madanthonywayne said:
Claiming to be a physician there to demonstrate support for ObamaCare among physicians when you are, in fact, an Obama activfist and not a physician at all is lying.
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Yes, yet again the Liberals are caught stacking the Deck, or in plain word lying, and joe want to spin the event and lie.

No violence until Obamas purple shit thugs show up at the town hall meetings, democrat plants in the audience, and they have to lie, why?

(she thought it would help her credibility)​

Truth is the only credibility, and this show just how much truth there is in the Obama support at these Town Hall Meeting.

The Liberals in Washington have become conceited, autocratic, egomaniacal, pretentious, egotistical, and so smug, that they believe they can lie with impunity, and make the People swallow what ever line of crap they decide to feed us, it is time to change the diappers in Washington, and leave the babys in them when they hit the crapper.
 
567 said:
I am still waiting for republikan solution to health care... the party of NO should represent their solution. One of the joker from Fox news said on TV that American public doesn't deserve a good health care system. I think he was Bill kristol or something.
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The solution is to get Government out of Health Care.
 
Buffalo Roam said:
Yes, yet again the Liberals are caught stacking the Deck, or in plain word lying, and joe want to spin the event and lie.
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Except the democrats aren't all that liberal

No violence until Obamas purple shit thugs show up at the town hall meetings, democrat plants in the audience, and they have to lie, why?
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any proof for this wild allegation or do we just have to take your golden word for it.

Truth is the only credibility, and this show just how much truth there is in the Obama support at these Town Hall Meeting.
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Its not as bad as you make it out because she was in fact asking questions on behalf of actual doctors.

The Liberals in Washington have become conceited, autocratic, egomaniacal, pretentious, egotistical, and so smug, that they believe they can lie with impunity, and make the People swallow what ever line of crap they decide to feed us, it is time to change the diappers in Washington, and leave the babys in them when they hit the crapper.
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So your complaint is they have decided to act like conservatives? and you really should go out and meet some liberals
 
US on health care

i herd a very interesting program on the reasons the US has never had UHC inspite of having presidents on both sides of the fence (democrats AND republicans) surporting the introduction of various models of UHC.

It was on ABC Nationals Rear vision and it was aimed at australian audiances but was interviewing US academics about it (so i think in one section it mentions medicare meaning the Australian system rather than the US version)

For those who dont know the Australian system of medicare means a universal system (ie every citizan, resident, refugee and NZ citizans who have lived here a certain amount of time) of insurance rather than an NHS system. The goverment legislates rates which it will pay for different items and has disinstentives built in to prevent doctors from charging about the shedualed fees (which are quite ingenious to be honest). The sole reason there is no NHS system in Australia is because the high court ruled it unconsitutional when the BMA (now called the AMA) challanged the legislation in court

Anyway This program goes through all the presidents from Theodore Roosevelt, through Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Richard Nixon (yes NIXON), Clinton and finally Barack Obama

Very interesting program which argues that its not that the US public are against it or even that the AMA is so strong that they can crush it but rather that bad luck (in the case of the death of Roosevelt and the impeachment of Nixon) and the way the US cogressional system is structured (which means that unlike most other countries where if a goverment is elected with a single number 1 issue that will generally happen) which have managed to spoil the chances of it being put into place.

The transcript is here
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/rearvision/stories/2009/2658096.htm

if you click on the "Listen Now" or "Download Audio" buttons you can hear the audio
 
If you have that kind of consistent pattern over so many years, much more than bad luck is involved. The fact that an obvious and ordinary arrangement like a state health service could be vulnerable to minor happenstances of political history - imagine if the US had no riverport system, and the explanation was that some politician had died in the 1940s - needs the bulk of the explanation.

One consistent factor is racism - the key and fundamental influence of racially based plantation - industrial - slavery. In political reality, up through the 1970s the US would have had to have set up two National Health Services, the black one more or less entirely supported by taxes on white people.

You see the remains of that obstacle today, re-coded (under Nixon and then notably under Reagan) as "welfare".
 
Even more amazing that large corporations like GM (which cannot/could not service its healthcare obligation) helped to kill Health Care reform despite the fact that it would have saved them fortune. It's all about ruling class unity, top 1% unites while bottom 90% don't, that's why top 1% rules. Ruling (propertied) class as a collective doesn't want to give an idea to wage slaves. An idea which may encourage collective actions in the future. Rugged individualism of an isolated, disposable wage slave unit (having no chance against the corporate machine) is good for business, it's something to cherish and grow despite loses to some segments of corporate economy. Ruling class solidarity is quite amazing if one thinks about it.
 
There are a lot of folks off topic here. It is not suprising for me to once again see a lot of unfounded accusations and name calling by Republicans and their special interest masters.

It seems all the anti-healthcare reform folks have to offer is more lies, unfounded accusations and name calling which reminds me of what that famous marxist once said:

"A lie told often enough becomes truth." Vladimir Lenin.

It appears that is yet again what the special interests and their Republican allies are trying to do here.
 
Buffalo Roam said:
The solution is to get Government out of Health Care.
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No the Republican solution to healthcare is to throw more government money at it. All that will do is fuel the escallation of healthcare prices/cost. The solution to the healthcare problem in the US is very simple, more competition and that is what this discussion boils down too.

Do we continue to throw money at the heathcare problem and hope it resolves itself or do we make structural changes within the industry to make it more competitve? The ultimate solution to the problem is a more competitve industry which is what the public option is all about. Giving more power and money to the healthcare industry has not worked in the past and it will not work in the future.
 
the dems need to to tell all the naysayers to STFU the people want national health care and that what they are going to get.
 
The problem is that the Republican leadership (hannity, limbaugh, levin, beck, et al) and their healthcare industry masters are scaring a lot of innocent people with lies. As I said earlier, I cannot find one ounce of truth in anything the Republicans have said, not one.

I am still waiting to hear something truthful about healthcare reform from Republicans and their healthcare industry masters.
 
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