any proof or should we as usually expect every one to do take your word on it.
Health Care Bill Debate
- Thread starter madanthonywayne
- Start date
any proof or should we as usually expect every one to do take your word on it.
Single payer system been working for you right along, eh?buffalo said:
Lucky you. You have almost French quality health care. Most Americans don't, because of people like you.
Paying 17% of the GDP for second rate medical services was bound to catch up with us sooner or later. Looks like the time has arrived.buffalo said:
I agree the Dem plan won't work very well, and will be far too expensive. But it's probably the best Congress can put together, given a public full of people like you.
Sorry Buffalo Roam you have been know on more than one occasion to make false postings in order to further your political position. How do we know what you are saying here is true? You need to produce some proof of your claim.
And the coffers are not dry. Medicare is still in surplus. Although it is predicted that it will go dry in the future in no small part because the Republican Party wanted to fight a stupid war in Iraq that was going to solve all our problems. It only cost us a trillion dollars over the last seven years.
Challenger78
Valued Senior Member
Ok. Forget Federally. How about public?
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
To the first question I think the answer is no. Many people just like the idea of universal health care. Bush wasn't lampooned from the beginning of his presidency just because he proposed something, no, it took a bad war, many administration lies, Gitmo+Abu Ghraib, and the patriot act. Not to mention Bush-isms those little nuggets of nonsense that let the world know the U.S was run by an unintelligent man. This one is a gem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv15qCMSXpE
Challenger78
Valued Senior Member
I would argue that the patriot act, was actually analyzed more thoroughly than the healthcare bill by those that protest against it.
Every protested bill of W's was analyzed more thoroughly by its protesters than this one. The Patriot Act was actually read, by some of its opponents. The Social Security dismemberment proposal was better known by its opponents than its authors.challenger said:
These bills haven't been analyzed at all by their opponents on the right, as far as I can tell. They're just making things up.
The opponents on the left have gone into the occasional realistic detail, but little air time has been wasted on them.
How does government grow bigger and not take away freedoms. I will give you that, true, he hasn't taken away such things freedom of religion, press (although if he could, he would) and speech (another he has shown amazing intolerance to opposition). Freedoms don't have to be daily tangibles. We have many freedoms that we don't recognize on a daily basis that we won't know until that time comes when we want to use them.
Yes it is, and thus is a sad indictment of Americans, American politics and the American psyche.
Anything that provides people with health care will fall under the definition of "controlling your life", in the sense that your life or death is in their hands, now who do you want that to be? Someone thinking only of profit and your ability to sue? ...Or a doctor that answers to no one and gets paid a fair amount by a public institution answerable to the people?
The savings would be tremendous, something you are glossing over or misrepresenting. It would be independent of your employer, so that would encourage entrepreneurship. Small businesses would not have to worry about worker's comp. Administration costs would be lower because it's all the same system, streamlined electronically. If business in America is booming, we won't have to worry about how to pay for these things, and after all, we will all pay anyway in one way or another. Do you want to pay for corporate profits as well as doctors? If private insurance works for you, just keep it.
That's a mighty big assertion care to back it up?
Read John T Galt
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/KnowYourRights/KnowYourEmergencyRoomRights.aspx
"What you're not entitled to
If you're not having an emergency, then the hospital emergency room does not have to treat you. The hospital most likely will direct you to your own doctor or to a less-intensive-care setting, such as a community health clinic."
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/KnowYourRights/KnowYourEmergencyRoomRights.aspx
"What you're not entitled to
If you're not having an emergency, then the hospital emergency room does not have to treat you. The hospital most likely will direct you to your own doctor or to a less-intensive-care setting, such as a community health clinic."
This is why it is so hard to debate with partisans. It isn't about republican or democrat health care plan. It is about cost.
First, MAW is correct health care will never be refused. However, the costs may not be to ones liking. Why is the cost so high?
One need not look any further than governmental regulations. This is the single biggest reason costs are high. So what is the solution? What else more government.
Take the governmental away from all of it, maybe some basic exceptions, and you will see costs fall. Try this on the economy and you will see increase in cash flow and in the job market.
Grievances are why the courts exist.
What has this got to do with the original claim that Obama was like Hitler?
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
joe, just look at Cap and Trade, Obamas center piece legislation, if that is passed in the Senate, and is signed by Obama, guess what, the government will come into your home, and set your thermostat, control how much electricity you can use, how much water that you will be allowed, what you can drive, even when and if you can have a BBQ grill, they will tell you how big of a home you can have, and how much land you can occupy, yes joe, tell me about the loss of freedoms.......
The health bill is no different, even though it doesn't appear in the bill tell me how the Government System is going to operate? bureaucracies, government bureaucracies, government boards that will decide just how much and what type coverage that will be allowed for you.
England is a prime example, your life is worth $45,000 dollars a year, when you are no longer contributing to society, if you cost the government more than $45,000 a year for health care NICE will cut off treatment, and send you home to die.
National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE)
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1899873-2,00.html
NICE uses a metric called "quality-adjusted life year," or Qaly, which grades a person's health-related quality of life from 0 to 1. Say a new drug for a previously untreatable condition comes on the market and the drug is proven to improve a patient's quality of life from .5 to .7 on the scale. A patient on the drug can expect to live an average of 15 years following the treatment. Taking the new drug thus earns patients the equivalent of three quality-adjusted life years (15 years multiplied by the .2 gain in quality of life). If the treatments costs $15,000, then the cost per quality-adjusted life year is $5,000.
Taking its lead from Britain's Department of Transport — which has a cost- per-life-saved threshold for new road schemes of about $2.2 million per life, or around $45,000 per life year gained — NICE rarely approves a drug that costs more than $45,000 per Qaly (the fictitious drug would easily pass).
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
What makes me mad is the Idea that those in the Military don't pay for their health care, guess what they pay for it by the job they do, it is a job that is 24/7/365 days a year, and at a moments notice you can be dropped into situations that can and will get you killed, you spend months and years away from your family, and work in some of the harshest environments around the world, so yes the Guys in the Military pay everyday, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year for their Health Care and that of their Families.+
Now how many of you are willing to do this job to get the health care benefits?
Hmmmm?
24/7/365 days a year under a 4 year contract, let see how badly you want health care.
If you want it, just hop on down to your local recruiting station and sign up, and get your free health care, then find out the reality of it's cost, and the fact that you are paying for it with your body.
Now how many of you are willing to do this job to get the health care benefits?
Hmmmm?
24/7/365 days a year under a 4 year contract, let see how badly you want health care.
If you want it, just hop on down to your local recruiting station and sign up, and get your free health care, then find out the reality of it's cost, and the fact that you are paying for it with your body.
Wow, you got a lot in there..not much truth but a lot there. Cap and Trade will not put government in homes. Government will not ration or control the supply of electricity or water or any of the other things you referenced. Keeping it simple, Cap and Trade amounts the government selling the right to put some much pollution into the air and water. Those rights are subsequentlyt traded. That is it in a nut shell. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that it will cost consumers 175 dollars a year ten years from now. Hardly anything to get bent out of shape about.
Two, the article you referenced appeared to me to be very favorable to univeral healthcare. The rationing described is used today in the US. But instead of a national board, it is the insurance companies who are using those calculations. It is the insurance companies who are turing away sick people when they are ill after having paid insurance premiums for years.
And what Obama is not proposing a UK kind of single payer healthcare system. He is not running out private insurance. He is not proposing a national board which rations healthcare. He is for a national healthcare exchange with performance metrics. So users (you and I) can decide which kind of coverage we want and it will be affordably priced.
It's only a threat to tyrants.
However did either gin carrying gentleman hold up such a sign or behave in any violent manner? No. Then your argument is just another red herring.
The first of the town hall gunslingers to hit the news was waving exactly that sign - IIRC it was even in the same font, or similar, as Timothy McVeigh's chosen death shirt - and wearing his hogleg strapped down low, quickdraw fashion.scott said:
Uh, sure.scott said:
There isn't any Republican plan, and the spiraling costs are what's breaking the current system.galt said:
People are turned away from emergency rooms all the time, in the US.galt said:
Why is that true for the US, and nowhere else in the Western world? Do we have the worst government in the Western hemisphere, or what is our special problem?galt said:
How come I have to join the army to get French quality health care, when everyone in France gets it just by paying the same in taxes I already pay?buffalo said: