Health Care Bill Debate

Lads, believe as you like. Pointing out that the KKK and the fundies were much worse in the 60s sounds like a springvault to the justification of "whatever comes next". This is why I'm a reluctant communism in the practical areas at best, even though dialectically I'm far further to the left than anyone here: it usually fucks up in spectacular ways. I believe in it, but I'd never see it done, and I don't trust anyone trying it unless it were me.
 
geoff said:
Lads, believe as you like. Pointing out that the KKK and the fundies were much worse in the 60s sounds like a springvault to the justification of "whatever comes next".
Click to expand...
That was you, attempting to drag in lies about the 60s violence to defend a fantasy view of the current situation.

The lies and thuggery are overwhelmingly on one side of the health care debate and all similar political issues these days. That is significant.
 
SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

*The current resurgence has several apparent causes. In the largest sense, it is again a response to real societal stresses and strains, from the seemingly inevitable rise of multiculturalism to the faltering economy to another liberal administration, this one headed by a black man. Similar factors have driven the number of race-based hate groups, as distinct from Patriot groups, from 602 in 2000 to 926 in 2008, according to research by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

"This frequently happens when elections favor the political left and the society is seen as moving toward greater social equality or away from traditional societal hierarchies," Chip Berlet, a long-time analyst of the radical right at Political Research Associates, said in a June newsletter. "In this scenario, it is easier for right-wing demagogues to successfully demonize liberals," immigrants and others.

*Far-right fears of conspiracies have come from other quarters, as well, most notably from the so-called "birthers" who have filed a series of lawsuits making the claim that Obama is not a U.S. citizen. These spurious claims first gained traction when prominent extremists like writer Jerome Corsi, politician Alan Keyes and Watergate felon and radio show host G. Gordon Liddy questioned the validity of the president's birth certificate. Many Patriots have also adopted conspiracy theories about secret government involvement in events like the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and the crash of TWA Flight 800 in 1996.

"The current political environment is awash with seemingly absurd but nonetheless influential conspiracy theories, hyperbolic claims and demonized targets," Berlet concluded. "And this creates a milieu where violence is a likely outcome."

Fox News Report - Right Wing Militias On The Rise In US
 
"This frequently happens when elections favor the political left and the society is seen as moving toward greater social equality or away from traditional societal hierarchies," Chip Berlet, a long-time analyst of the radical right at Political Research Associates, said in a June newsletter. "In this scenario, it is easier for right-wing demagogues to successfully demonize liberals," immigrants and others.
Click to expand...
So how does that explain the rise from 2000 to 2008?

Elections in that time strongly favored the political right, continuing a thirty year trend, and alleged societal movement was toward traditional social hierarchies etc.
 
joepistole said:
OH MY GOD, I must really be challenging you. :) Have you got any specfics? Of course you don't because you never do. The truth can sometimes hurt, but trust me it is good for you!

I cited an article that refuted an article in that said Stephen Hawkins would have died if he had British socialized healthcare. The fact is Hawkins has always had British socialized healthcare and he thinks it is quite good. In fact he, Hawkins, states he would not have survived without it the British Healthcare system.

So tell me what about that is false? In the US, he might not have survived that is not clear. If he would have gone on welfare in the US his healthcare would have been funded. But probably would not have been able to pursue his education nor work because of welfare restrictions. And that is the point, a lot of people are forced into welfare because of their health and that is a sad state of affairs.

As for the rest of your post, shear fantasy land. I hope you are not doing drugs because you have some crazy delusional stuff in there. :)
Click to expand...

Reading comprehension clearly is not one of your strong points is it?

The only challenge you give me is not laughing so hard to not injure myself doing so. I thank you for the continued practice.

As for the rest of your clear inability to comprehend, reread what I wrote.

You are such an idiot. I'm sorry, but I truly don't know how I am suppose to feel about your obvious inability to comprehend, argue without misrepresenting the truth, or obfuscating the issues, or twisting what others say, or make accusations because you are the one who is actually getting his ass handed to him, or trolling, or flaming.

Should I laugh, or cry?

Someone help me with this.
 
John T. Galt said:
Reading comprehension clearly is not one of your strong points is it?

The only challenge you give me is not laughing so hard to not injure myself doing so. I thank you for the continued practice.

As for the rest of your clear inability to comprehend, reread what I wrote.

You are such an idiot. I'm sorry, but I truly don't know how I am suppose to feel about your obvious inability to comprehend, argue without misrepresenting the truth, or obfuscating the issues, or twisting what others say, or make accusations because you are the one who is actually getting his ass handed to him, or trolling, or flaming.

Should I laugh, or cry?

Someone help me with this.
Click to expand...

LOL, good keep laughing because you have nothing else to offer but fear and insults. In my last post in this thread, I challenged you to support your claims, and you have not because you cannot. Your claims are undefendable and deep down you know that too. That is why you have not answered them.

Your record is one not one of using fact or rational discourse but in personal attacks and fear mongering. I am your worst nightmare, I am an INDEPENDENT AMERICAN who does my own thinking...not a dittohead who willingly accepts whatever someone wants to put into it.

You claim those that disagree with you, and there are many, are my followers. They are not, they like me use their brains to question and reason. They do not accept fear and hate in their lives. So just because people don't accept your hate or your fear does not mean they follow me or anyone else. They just disagree with you and those like you. And there is no harm in that...in fact it is a good thing that we can still disagree with each other. It was one of the founding principals by the way. And it is even a better that we can learn and reason without intimidation and fear.

It has been said the truth will set you free, and it will as long as you can see it. But if you cannot see the truth because of the blinders you willingly impose upon yourself, you are destine to roam in darkness all the years of your life.

I repeat, answer the questions from my last post. But atlas, the final analysis is that you cannot. You cannot support your claims.
 
spidergoat said:
The phone call was to a special health care hotline so she could answer a specific question. Rep. Jackson was not just gossiping on her cell.

If this woman, Mayer is lying, then she deserves to be called out for it. That doesn't take away from all the blatant lies being told by the right.
Click to expand...

Agreed, if the woman who identified her self as a physician lied, she does need to be called out. And then the question is why? Did she have backing? If so by whom or what?
 
Shit, the government can't even operate the POST OFFICE without so many problems that it is always failing so how do you think it is going to run something even more complex as a HEALTH CARE SYSTEM? :shrug:
 
iceaura said:
So how does that explain the rise from 2000 to 2008?

Elections in that time strongly favored the political right, continuing a thirty year trend, and alleged societal movement was toward traditional social hierarchies etc.
Click to expand...


you are confused. right wingers are motivated by a variety of causes. however a common theme found in most is an aversion to the federal govt,. the sentiment persists despite the prevailing political ideology of any given period in time

DHS - Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment.

edit: in case it still aint clear.....

In a way that was inconceivable when he took office, Bush—the advance man for the "ownership society," smaller and more trustworthy government, and a humble foreign policy—increased the size and scope of the federal government to unprecedented levels. At the same time, he constantly flashed signs of secrecy, duplicity, ineffectiveness and outright incompetence.

Think for a moment about the thousands of Transportation Security Administration screeners—newly minted government employees all—who continue to confiscate contact-lens solution and nail clippers while, according to nearly every field test, somehow failing to notice simulated bombs in passenger luggage.

Or schoolchildren struggling under No Child Left Behind, which federalized K-12 education to an unprecedented degree with nothing to show for it other than greater spending tabs. Or the bizarrely structured Medicare prescription-drug benefit, the largest entitlement program created since LBJ. Or the simple reality that taxpayers now guarantee some $8 trillion in inscrutable loans to a financial sector that collapsed from inscrutable loans.
​


Bush's Disaster Socialism

Bush Was a Big-Government Disaster

George Bush, Big-Government Man

Big government gets bigger
 
Last edited:
I hate Republicans and their supporters, they are the ones dragging this country into recession and accusing Democrats of following Socialism stance, which is the only way this country will get out of recession. But old farts like BuffaloRoam are unchangable in their pro-military anti-socialism statures.
 
Take heart, Joe

Joepistole said:

I cited an article that refuted an article in that said Stephen Hawkins would have died if he had British socialized healthcare. The fact is Hawkins has always had British socialized healthcare and he thinks it is quite good. In fact he, Hawkins, states he would not have survived without it the British Healthcare system.
Click to expand...

The original source of that rhetorical failure is an Investor's Business Daily editorial, and, as I noted previously, the gaffe was so embarrassing that, well ... yeah, like I said:

The article has, since original publication, been corrected. An editor's note informs us that "This version corrects the original editorial which implied that physicist Stephen Hawking, a professor at the University of Cambridge, did not live in the UK." That is a kind treatment of the point; Dr. Hawking's name has disappeared entirely from the article.​

Take heart, Joe. JTG passed on the first address of the issue in this thread. Note that he had to wait for you to frame the issue before misrepresenting that frame in a cheap evasion intended only as a platform for trying to insult you.

At best, his post was a testament to his priorities.
 
I wonder if any of these republitards have ever been to Europe? Their brand of socialism comes with freedom. I have been to Germany, and I wager they are more free than we are. At least, that has been my experience. In the US, there were always laws I had to explain to my German friends, but when I was there, it was amazing how the people were just left alone! My friend's Grandmother in Germany was dying, and no one had to worry about any hospital bills, all they had to worry about was their loved one passing away. They are amazed about all the pharmaceutical ads on our TV, in Europe that is just between you and your doctor. You get the medicine you need, you don't have to advertise it!
 
Well you might start connecting the dots of your propaganda comparison

Buffalo Roam said:

Yes, the Democrats are the ones who are bring the Astroturf and lay it at the Town Hall Meetings.
Click to expand...

So, Mr. Roam, as you track Democrats more obsessively than I do, which ones described union appeals to the membership to get out and participate as "grass roots"? And which Democrats did as our friend Madanthonywayne did, making a push to proclaim those grass roots exactly as the news cycle was considering the organizational structure?

Don't take me wrongly here, Mr. Roam. I'm sure you can find one or two.
 
gustav said:
you are confused. right wingers are motivated by a variety of causes.
Click to expand...
I don't doubt it - I just don't think the idea of a rise in rightwing BS between 2000 and 2008 as a reaction against the country's politics turning leftward, moving away from traditional social hierarchies, etc, makes any sense.

The greater ease of demonizing liberals and immigrants, say, was not created by the country's politics turning leftward in 2000. Quite otherwise.

So that the rise of the ugly is best explained not as reaction to increasing threat and leftward slide, but as a consequence of aid, abetment, and representation by the rich and powerful. It's one thing to rise against the disaster of a fascist regime given the keys to the army and the treasury, its' another to channel ones reactions against "liberals" and "immigrants".

If actual big government was the spur, why didn't the supporters of the Patriot Act suffer at the polls from rightwing assault?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top