Hate is ok if your country is attacked?

[spuriousmonkey]

This quote of our local fanatic reminded me of something.

And who the hell you are to talk about hate ?? when someone occupy your land and kill your people, will you like them ??? HYPOCRITE.

Is occupying someones country and killing your people really reason to hate someone?

As some people might know the Germans occupied most of Europe during WW2. The weren't particularly nice to most nations under occupations. People did get killed for no particular reason other than that they were jew, part of the resistance, a nuisance, or whatever.

Let's now go to a point (if we can reach it). The Germans have occupied the Netherlands. If the above principle is true than I should hate them. Surely I think that many germans are stupid (the same can be said for many dutch people) but do I hate them for occupying my country and killing my 'people'. No, not really.

Do the jews hat the german state and the german people? I doubt that this could be a general statement that describes their feelings towards germany.

Is it because so much time has passed on since this horrible war?

I wonder. Germany had become a part of Europe extremely quickly after the war. It seems unlikely that this could have been possible if a system of 'I hate everybody that occupies my country and kills my people' was in place.

What makes us say these statements then? Are recent wars and injustices so much more cruel and intense than for instance the WW2?


What if your own state kills your people? Is it still your country?

If I remember correctly the Jews were rather placid although they mostly knew their fate. Something must have kept them back. Was it a believe in the ultimate goodness of man?

na ja, more questions than answers.

 

[sargentlard]

Spurious

It is hate, anger and fear passed down from generation to generation. More often that not people hate without knowing the reasons why. It is easier to teach your kids anger and hate towards others instead of understanding why you are so angry and how you should carry yourself in front of impressionable childern.

After 9/11 kids were talking about muslims as if they were greatly affected by what had happened. These kids didn't know their head from their ass about Islam or about terrorism...they just followed the mob mentality exuded by those around them and the equally ignorant parents.

They called me a terrorist many times...completely missing the mark. It is anger Spurious...when one doesn't understand why or where it is coming from it is easily directed at those under fire at that moment. Hate keeps breeding and being passed down because built up anger from before never gets resolved.

na ja, more questions than answers.

Pretty much.

 

[SwedishFish]

They called me a terrorist many times

did you experience any violence (or threats of violence)?

 

[sargentlard]

did you experience any violence (or threats of violence)?

One...but it was fleeting. It was more laughable than anything else because he messed up by calling me the wrong ethnicity...all of them did infact. Their reaction was understandable. Acting up to counter their stupidity would have only been in vain, since it would have only further deepened their ignorance about cultures they don't understand.

 

[SwedishFish]

there was that one indian guy in arizona who was killed by people who mistook him for an arab. not that it would have been ok had he actually been arab.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

So where is all this anger coming from?

 

[jps]

there was that one indian guy in arizona who was killed by people who mistook him for an arab. not that it would have been ok had he actually been arab.

This somehow brings to mind Life magazine's publishing a guide to telling harmless chinese people from the diabolical japanese during world war two by thier facial structure to counter the frequent attacks against chinese people, and implying in the process that attacking japanese people was ok.
Maybe its time they did an update. Come to think of it, I think I've seen some articles that did that in a more PC way in recent years.

So where is all this anger coming from?

http://www.foxnews.com/
While the talking heads don't actually advocate attacking muslims on the street, they often imply that the liberal line about it being a few bad muslims is bullshit and that the religion itself is the problem.

 

[Tiassa]

The Germans have occupied the Netherlands. If the above principle is true than I should hate them.

While they're occupying the Netherlands, sure. But still, outright hatred is inefficient.

Do the jews hat the german state and the german people? I doubt that this could be a general statement that describes their feelings towards germany.

Are the German human rights abuses of Jews continuing today?

Are recent wars and injustices so much more cruel and intense than for instance the WW2?

What is the difference between an ongoing process and one that is finished and needs to be restarted?

What if your own state kills your people? Is it still your country?

I'm an American. There comes a point where ejecting the governing authority is not only a right, but a duty. It is my hope that we never reach it in this country, but our Declaration of Independence.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world. (Click Me)

 

[spuriousmonkey]

While they're occupying the Netherlands, sure.

Why, sure?

 

[Tiassa]

As long as humanity is going to waste time and effort on national borders, I can't expect any people to be governed by another nation; I really don't think people should endure governments they don't like when sentiment becomes widespread.

I tend to find hate to be to a person's disadvantage; it's irrational. But I've never lived in an occupied territory.

 

[Stokes Pennwalt]

I tend to find hate to be to a person's disadvantage; it's irrational. But I've never lived in an occupied territory.

More or less how I see it. It's energy wasted on emotion. If you're so pissed, go do some damage. Hate only gets in the way.

 

[Repo Man]

I can't help but think that in a war, hate would help keep you sane. When your job is to kill people, you have to suspend your sympathy towards the suffering of others. Most peoples automatic response to a wounded person is to try to help them, not to pump rounds into them to finish them off. Dehumanizing the enemy is necessary.

I think the key is to know when to let it go, and to not let hate blind your good judgement.

Many of the conflicts in the world today come from an inability to let the past die. When Serbs still commemorate the Battle at the Field of Blackbirds , I think it is time for someone to point out that IT WAS CENTURIES AGO!

 

[Rappaccini]

You've got to be kidding...

hate is the crown jewel of combat. Hate is what allows boxers to get out there and beat the fuck out of one another's faces.

Even glory-lust and loyalty are nothing beside hate.
One who seeks glory will falter, for he seeks not to destroy, but only to better himself. He will prove deficient.
One who fights for the sake of loyalty will falter, for he does not fight for himself, but for others.

But hate, it's goal is not self-aggrandizement, and it will not falter on account of that. It is also purely self-serving; it causes pleasure.


Hate and anger come hand in hand; they're fundamentally the same thing, a powerful emotion, the one and only that will make a person stronger and meaner instantly.

Doing damage without hate is meaningless. It's not an attack at all if it has no hate; it's pathetic.

In the end, the dog with more fight in him always wins, and "fight" is and will always be just a less offensive word for hate.

 

[rainbow__princess_4]

The Germans have occupied the Netherlands. If the above principle is true than I should hate them. Surely I think that many germans are stupid (the same can be said for many dutch people) but do I hate them for occupying my country and killing my 'people'. No, not really.

No I think you took it differently from what was meant, true they were in the Netherlands during World War II, however (by the original theory) you should not hate them because it is not happening now ie. if you lived their at the time then AT THE TIME you would hate them. Seeing you have no idea what it was like, it would be hard to hate them. And someone else said something about prejudice passing down through time, if spurious doesn't hate them then it means that the prejudice has been passed down enough so that it has disolved and no longer exists.

Also, about thinking Germans stupid, well all know where that lies... *looks sideways at Americans in general* Besides, I have a German sitting in my lounge room right now and she's damn smart.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

No I think you took it differently from what was meant, true they were in the Netherlands during World War II, however (by the original theory) you should not hate them because it is not happening now ie. if you lived their at the time then AT THE TIME you would hate them. Seeing you have no idea what it was like, it would be hard to hate them.

People in some arab countries hate the US for occupying Iraq and afghanistan. They also don't have a clue how it is to be occupied by the US. Still they hate the US.


Not everybody hated the Germans during WW2 in holland.


Ghandi thought not to hate the British at all.


Therefore is it all really logical to hate and an automatic state of mind?

 

[rainbow__princess_4]

1.People in some arab countries hate the US for occupying Iraq and afghanistan. They also don't have a clue how it is to be occupied by the US. Still they hate the US.


2.Not everybody hated the Germans during WW2 in holland.


3.Ghandi thought not to hate the British at all.

1. Yeah but they hated them anyway, this is just an extra excuse.
2.I know, but as I said those who did hate them i'd think it mostly because they were invading.
3.Ghandi wasn't the prime minister of India and he wasn't being invaded, he wanted equality, not the British out. So if you want to be equal you can't hate the other guys can you?

 

[spuriousmonkey]

1. Yeah but they hated them anyway, this is just an extra excuse.
2.I know, but as I said those who did hate them i'd think it mostly because they were invading.
3.Ghandi wasn't the prime minister of India and he wasn't being invaded, he wanted equality, not the British out. So if you want to be equal you can't hate the other guys can you?

Ghandi certainly wasn't the prime minister of India, but India certainly was under foreign rule.

But that is not the point.

There is an automatic justification for hatred as we have seen in several responses in this thread. That is all very well understandable. But where does this justification of hatred come from. And I tried to give a few examples that it is not always automatically the case that hatred takes over. The level of hatred isn't always the same.

What are the factors in play here.

 

[chuck u farley]

What is the difference between an ongoing process and one that is finished and needs to be restarted?I'm an American. There comes a point where ejecting the governing authority is not only a right, but a duty. It is my hope that we never reach it in this country, but our Declaration of Independence.

Hot damn! You're right Tiassa! That's some fine reading there too, that stuff about usurping and all!
But, hey buddy, we gotta be armed to pull this off! And we gotta have some proficiency, fire discipline and all that. Like them rednecks that kicked Burgoyne's ass!
So get a hold of you're old lady's hog leg and come on over! I'll head over to Wal-Mart and get a bunch of ammo! We'll start by blasting the bejesus out of some jack rabbits!