Has anyone seen my horse

[audible]

I can live in a world where the man who lives on the corner, takes his "invisible" horse out for a ride. I'll smile and step aside when he "gallops" by. After all, he's not hurting anyone. No harm, right? I know there's not an invisible horse, but it makes him happy and that's the important thing. It's amusing, actually. But if almost everyone in my town starts to ride "invisible" horses, the dynamic changes drastically. Then I am continually stepping aside for them to "ride" through.

They build barns and stables for their "invisible" friends and they don't pay taxes on these buildings or on anything they buy, that relates to their "invisible" companions. So, I'm paying their share of the taxes and stepping politely aside for them. As if accomodating their "invisible" buddies in these ways isn't bad enough, many people want to talk about them. Although they don't show me pictures, they certainly have a lot of funny stories. Be careful though, they don't think these stories are funny. They want you to respect their invisible friend and get kind of cranky if you don't. It gets tricky, because although they are entitled to their beliefs, I am just as entitled to think they are at the very least, childishly delusional. This creates more awkwardness. I am somewhat resistant to stepping aside, paying extra taxes, listening to their stories AND pretending like what they believe is okay. I have limits, I suppose.

A walk through their stables is silent and there is nothing to indicate these invisible creatures actually exist. The building is empty, yet the "riders" enter, talk and carry on like there is something there. They don't notice the silence, because they simply answer for their "invisible" companions, too. No problem, because they know what their "invisible" friend is thinking and what he wants. It's almost like watching a puppet show, but with real people.

When I actually have the temerity to ask them to please ride around me occasionally, they wonder why I hate their invisible entities. Any attempt to explain why I can't be hostile toward something that doesn't exist, seems to fall on deaf ears. They claim, if I didn't "hate", then I would see that invisible creatures do exist. Inevitably comes the challenge to prove that these shy little buddies DON'T exist!! Attempts to explain that non-existence is, well....nothing and can't be proven, seem beyond their comprehension. I have asked them to prove that aliens, IPU's, the Almighty Schlogg or Bigfoot DON'T exist, but I've had no takers on even one of these choices. It is apparently unfriendly and unloving to tell someone that their invisible friend doesn't, um....appear to exist. Somewhere along the way, I find that I'm not smiling as much, anymore.

recognise anyone.

thanks to just_sub1

 

[Diesel]

The worst part is watching out for the invisible horse feces. Seems like it is everywhere!
(Good example though)

 

[§outh§tar]

If everyone but you saw these horses, did you stop to think that you may be the childishly delusional one?

Tell me this: How do you know it is not your delusion which hampers you?

 

[Leo Volont]

But these horses are invisible to you only because you wear your selfimposed blinders.

The Vatican keep a library of documented evidence for the Miraculous. the other Higher Religions haven't the institutions for investigation and corroboration that the Vatican has, but their informal testimonies for the miraculous can hardly be ignored.

So it is in the face of so much empirical evidence for the Supernatural that modern Atheists have to insist upon their own Blind Faith of believing in their own version of a spiritually sterile Materialism. They can deny the things of the spirit only by ignoring them.

 

[Leo Volont]

Religion and Psychology

Atheism that resides only in the Intellect will ultimately fail because it can sink no deep roots into the wellsprings of Human Psychology. Yes, there has been an informal Philosophical Assumption, since the days of Voltaire and Locke, that humans can be trained by education to be entirely intellectual – to live only in the Head, and then only upon the surface. But looking around, we can conclude that they must have been mistaken, as it just never caught on to any deeper Reality.

But does Religion have a better chance? Well, look at the Psychological Archetypes. Much in our Psychologies – the Archetypes and Dream Motifs – follow along with a Pre-Christian Pagan library of Characters and Symbols, but to a Civilized end no less. Greece, Rome, and Babylon, after all, were Civilizations. It was just one of those many things that made me suspect Paul of being the Antichrist, that he was able to direct Christianity outside the boundaries of Psychological Significance. If Paul’s Doctrine’s were in fact True then why would they not have any Psychological Parallels? In the vast library of Dreams, no dreamer has ever yet dreamed anything that in any way conformed to any Paulist Doctrine or which modeled any Paulist view of the Universe, Material or Spiritual. We need to suspect why the Paulist Vision finds not resonance in Human Psychology, or with the Traditions of Spirituality or Mysticism. Anything that is True should not stand in such stark isolation to everything else. But Falsehood can.

This is one Area where Marian Catholicism was able to undo much of the Pauline Damage. The Blessed Virgin is able to slip in seamlessly into much of our Mythologies and Psychological Archetypical milieus. One reason I find it so reasonable to believe in the Marian Dispensation is that I have had a number of dreams of Mary the Blessed Virgin. One may dispute the importance of Dreams, but one cannot dispute their Psychological Objectivity, considering that people are powerless to control create the content of their dreams. This is why we call the Subconscious Mind ‘subconscious’, as it is beyond the conscious mind’s abilities to control and manipulate the Messages that come out of it. And we can see that the Marian Motif is as old as Civilization itself. Observe that there really is not much of a difference between Mary the Virgin and Diana the Virgin? The One is B.C. and the other is A.D. But both are upholders of Civilization and Religion.

 

[qwerasdfzxcv]

audible...evidence can only be found within yourself. If there phsical evidence around us all the time then there would be no need for faith. Faith makes your way to heaven or hell. God doesn't want evil people in his kingdom so life on earth is their test. God made that mistake with lucifer, and found out he was evil.

 

[ellion]

audible...evidence can only be found within yourself. If there phsical evidence around us all the time then there would be no need for faith. Faith makes your way to heaven or hell. God doesn't want evil people in his kingdom so life on earth is their test. God made that mistake with lucifer, and found out he was evil.

faith is your way to heaven or hell!

 

[pavlosmarcos]

If everyone but you saw these horses, did you stop to think that you may be the childishly delusional one?

if he was the only one then there would be no other recourse, than to think he was hallucinating.

but fortunately only one third of the population believe in the xian horse, and the there different sects dont see the same horse or it has a different saddle.

They can deny the things of the spirit only by ignoring them.

no to ignore or deny would mean you believe they exist, as they dont in reality only in fantasy, then there just not there.

to live only in the Head, and then only upon the surface.

we all have an imagination, yes even us atheist amasing as that may seem, it's knowing where the line is between reality and fantasy and not crossing, this is why we have lunatic asylums.

evidence can only be found within yourself.

so what your saying is you need to believe your own delusions, is'nt that bordering on lunacy.

If there physical evidence around us all the time then there would be no need for faith.

there is no need for religious faith, to have hope for something ie passing your exams or somebody having faith in you, will always be there regardless of religion.

Faith makes your way to heaven or hell. God doesn't want evil people in his kingdom so life on earth is their test. God made that mistake with lucifer, and found out he was evil.

I am going to have to repeat this again,there are over 680 evil (killing maiming etc) deeds done in the bible either directly or indirectly by god, there are just over 200 good deeds, and there are just over 50 directly accountable to the devil or demons and none of these killed anyone.
your gods not a very good example, you xians are always blaming the devil for you gods evilness.
incidently I have no believe in either, I'm just making a point.

 

[scorpius]

The Vatican keep a library of documented evidence for the Miraculous.

So it is in the face of so much empirical evidence for the Supernatural...

sorry,
but books full of fantasy stories dont count as empirical evidence,

 

[scorpius]

I have had a number of dreams of Mary the Blessed Virgin. One may dispute the importance of Dreams, but one cannot dispute their Psychological Objectivity, considering that people are powerless to control create the content of their dreams.

This is why we call the Subconscious Mind ‘subconscious’, as it is beyond the conscious mind’s abilities to control and manipulate the Messages that come out of it.

powerless my ass..
you dream about this Mary b/c thats all you think and talk about 24/7 me thinks.
I bet you also have pictures of her everywhere and keep looking and praying to her all the time epecialy before going to sleep
am I correct?
and
Im prety sure that you can control your dreams,
try this
if you just get rid of all those pics of virgin Mary and completely forgoten about her,and instead started thinking about
Elephants for example,
big elephants,small elephants,grey,white,blue ,red elephants fucking elephants fighting elephants elephants holly fng elephants ...and put pictures of ELEPHANTS everywhere in your house
and PRAY sincerely to the Elephants
I fng guarantee you will be dreaming about elephants in very short time.
as they will be imprinted upon your subconsious so fng deep...

 

[§outh§tar]

if he was the only one then there would be no other recourse, than to think he was hallucinating.

but fortunately only one third of the population believe in the xian horse, and the there different sects dont see the same horse or it has a different saddle.

I never refered to an xian horse, but merely to his own allegory.

But to respond to you:
Just because people see different horses doesn't mean all of them don't exist. Besides, your point is - excuse me to say - logically incoherent. If you, being an atheist, cannot see the horses, then how do you know these different groups are not merely looking at the same horse differently? Since you don't know, but are only assuming, I am sure you will argue from ignorance or incorporate some other non sequitur.

Just because I see blue and you see red doesn't mean there is no color.

 

[Raithere]

Just because I see blue and you see red doesn't mean there is no color.

Ah, but color can be measured, even if we disagree upon the color. We can determine its frequency, amplitude, radiance, and polarity. Regarding invisible horses there is nothing to measure, there is no discernable effect upon the world. Despite frequent claims, no one can travel faster using an invisible horse and no grass or hay ever gets eaten by the invisible horses. The only effect it has is upon the actions of those who believe they see them.

~Raithere

 

[qwerasdfzxcv]

pavlosmarcos can u tell me these evil deeds?

 

[pavlosmarcos]

pavlosmarcos can u tell me these evil deeds?

I wont reprint the list on this forum, it's far to long.
but heres the list.http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.htmlhappy reading.
incidently all scriptures can be verified in the KJB.

 

[audible]

If everyone but you saw these horses, did you stop to think that you may be the childishly delusional one?

yes I did, because quite clearly, I would be delusional if I had no solid proof for reality.

Tell me this: How do you know it is not your delusion which hampers you?

quite clearly because, I live in the real world..

 

[§outh§tar]

quite clearly because, I live in the real world..

"I am not delusional because I live in the real world"

And you lambaste others for their logical fallacies..

 

[§outh§tar]

Ah, but color can be measured, even if we disagree upon the color. We can determine its frequency, amplitude, radiance, and polarity. Regarding invisible horses there is nothing to measure, there is no discernable effect upon the world. Despite frequent claims, no one can travel faster using an invisible horse and no grass or hay ever gets eaten by the invisible horses. The only effect it has is upon the actions of those who believe they see them.

~Raithere

But does that mean they aren't there is the question I was asking?

 

[audible]

how can living in reality, be classed as a false or invalid notion

If everyone but you saw these horses, did you stop to think that you may be the childishly delusional one?

yes I did, because quite clearly, I would be delusional if I had no solid proof for reality.

Tell me this: How do you know it is not your delusion which hampers you?

quite clearly because, I live in the real world..

"I am not delusional because I live in the real world"

And you lambaste others for their logical fallacies.. :

logical fallacies: is'nt that an oxymoron.
I might have lambasted people for their fallacies.
but they were certainly not logical.

what I dont understand is how you can say, living in reality is a false or invalid notion, saying I live in the real world, is The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence.
I live in the real world means I'm capable of reasoning in a clear and consistent manner.
were as being delusional is the exact opposite, I would not want to live in a world where you dont question your own believes, and just grasp onto your false belief even when theres no validating evidence.( wait a minute I am living in a world like that, oops, better commit suicide.)

 

[Raithere]

But does that mean they aren't there is the question I was asking?

Yes. Perception is fallible. Without validation the logical course is disbelief or at least a healthy dose of skepticism.
The alternative is to believe everything unquestioningly, a position fraught with complication and peril.

~Raithere

 

[§outh§tar]

how can living in reality, be classed as a false or invalid notion
logical fallacies: is'nt that an oxymoron.

No its not.

I might have lambasted people for their fallacies.
but they were certainly not logical.

Four fingers point your way.

what I dont understand is how you can say, living in reality is a false or invalid notion, saying I live in the real world, is The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence.
I live in the real world means I'm capable of reasoning in a clear and consistent manner.
were as being delusional is the exact opposite, I would not want to live in a world where you dont question your own believes, and just grasp onto your false belief even when theres no validating evidence.( wait a minute I am living in a world like that, oops, better commit suicide.)

Note: I am trying to point out that this "delusion" and "reality" bifurcation is literally subjective but I hope you will figure that out on yourself.