Hand Guns - Yes or No

Hand Guns Are Needed (by me or others)

  • Total voters
    73
TW Scott said:
Yeah, but overall the total intentional homocide rate is roughly the same per capita. So in UK they are being killed with knives, lead pipes, ropes, drownings, and other weapons. Meanwhile in the US many would be vitims are killing their attackers.
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Not true, overall, the homicide rate in the USA is far greater per capita than the UK;

"There were a total of 859 homicide offences recorded in 2004/05, an increase of one per cent compared to the previous year. " (http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page40.asp)

In the USA, in 2005, there were 16,692 homicides, according to the FBI (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_01.html)

So our number of homicides is nearly 1/20th of yours. Per capita that's nearly four times our rate.

This disproves the argument that people will go use a knife or a bat if they can't get a gun. Simply, they have time to cool off if they can't take action immediately, and that saves lives.
 
John99 said:
People in all other developed nations are pretty much like American's. We only see the elitist bull shit throwers who claim to be different.
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No they are not. Americans are much more controlled by their media and government policies than other developed nations.
 
phlogistician said:
Facts, UK, Population, 60,000,000, firearm related homicides each year, 46 ish.
USA, Population, 300,000,000, firearm related homicides per year, 16,000 ish.

UK, strict guns laws, USA, lax guns laws. Work it out.
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Fact: Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is flawed. In America, a gun crime
is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition
(a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly
undercounting the amount of gun crime there. 296 To make matters worse, British law
enforcement has been exposed for falsifying criminal reports to create falsely lower crime
figures, in part to preserve tourism.297
 
SoLiDUS said:
You're on drugs if you think it's only 46 per 60000000: it's approximately 46 per 100000! Look at page 51 in the gunfaqs! Where are YOUR statistics? LINK ME NOW.
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Are we talking gun homicides, or total homicides? Gun homicides is about 46 per year, overall homicides about 850. A QUARTER OF YOURS.
 
It wouldn't matter what we're talking about, since we're not using the same system to enter the statistics. Your violent crime and murder rates are still increasing at a far greater number than ours are. Even Australia is seeing increases since their bans. You're seeing a reduction of violent crime and murder rates in countries promoting firearms ownership and its safe use. Work it out.
 
As y'all can see, no one is going to change anyone's mind on the issue of gun control ...or anything else for that matter. We should just all express our opinion once, then let it go. This "discussion" is like all "discussions" here, this place is just a public blog space where we all just express our own opinion without regard to the statistics, facts, truth or a any-fuckin'-thing else.

Yep, just a big public blog space.

Baron Max
 
... but their opinion is flawed and it's based on emotional rhetoric! If we don't make an effort to shed light on the issue, the gun control lobby will continue to mislead the uninformed public and ultimately create more harm than good with these ill-thought bans and measures meant to take away our right to defend ourselves.
 
SoLiDUS said:
Fact: Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is flawed. In America, a gun crime
is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition
(a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly
undercounting the amount of gun crime there. 296 To make matters worse, British law
enforcement has been exposed for falsifying criminal reports to create falsely lower crime
figures, in part to preserve tourism.297
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So in Britain only conviction results in recording of a crime while in the US it does not matter if there was a conviction?
 
SoLiDUS said:
... but their opinion is flawed and it's based on emotional rhetoric! If we don't make an effort to shed light on the issue, the gun control lobby will continue to mislead the uninformed public and ultimately create more harm than good with these ill-thought bans and measures meant to take away our right to defend ourselves.
Click to expand...

No, these people here can't do anything like that to us. The only way gun control can be instituted is by public vote and/or congressional vote. And if that's what's voted into law, then as a good and loyal citizen, I'll either do what's legal, or I'll start a revolution. Those are the two choices.

But nothing that's said here at sciforums means anything at all ...it's just mostly young people who don't have much experience in the world. Just remember, when most young, hot-headed liberals begin to live and work in the real world, when they have children of their own, most of them become conservative in their political views. How many old, avid liberals do you know?

Baron Max
 
samcdkey said:
So in Britain only conviction results in recording of a crime while in the US it does not matter if there was a conviction?
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In the USA, a dead body with signs of assault or with bullet holes in it is considered a "murder" ...then they go in search of a perpetrator. In Britian, a dead body is just that, a dead body. If they think it was a murder, they go searching for a perpetrator, but if they don't find one there's no "murderer", right? So the "crime" goes on the books as "dead body", not murder.

Baron Max
 
sderenzi said:
Answer Poll (idea from Baron Max)
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To answer your question honestly.. NO. We do not need many things. We do not NEED cars. We do not NEED to take a shower.

However, a better question is does having a hand gun help protect our innate rights as a human in this era? Then the answer is yes.
 
SoLiDUS said:
You're seeing a reduction of violent crime and murder rates in countries promoting firearms ownership and its safe use. Work it out.
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Got data to correlate gun ownership and laws to this graph;

uscentury.gif


I don't think you have. I think that the overall trend is that countries with more guns have more gun crime. There might be a downward trend in the USA at the moment, and I could claim that the 1994 Brady Bill is responsible for the decline shown. What would you have to counter that?
 
SoLiDUS said:
... but their opinion is flawed and it's based on emotional rhetoric!
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16,000 dead is emotional rhetoric?

My opinion is based on;

"There were a total of 859 homicide offences recorded in 2004/05, an increase of one per cent compared to the previous year. " (http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page40.asp)

In the USA, in 2005, there were 16,692 homicides, according to the FBI (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_01.html)

So our number of homicides is nearly 1/20th of yours. Per capita that's nearly four times our rate.

If you look at homicide rates with guns, your stats look even worse, we start to compare a number in the mid 40s in the UK, to around 16,000 in the USA. That isn't rhetoric, it's a great big pile of dead people.
 
Is the 'Y' axis percentage of population in ownership of a gun, phlogistician?

Or something else?
 
phlogistician said:
That isn't rhetoric, it's a great big pile of dead people.
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Yeah, sure. But how many were killed by criminals versus how many were killed by good, law-abiding citizens? And ain't that what we're talkin' about here?

Phlog, you still haven't told us how you're gonna' keep guns away from the criminals. Unless you can do that, you're just making the innocent, law-abiding citizens nothing but defenseless targets for the bad guys.

Baron Max
 
samcdkey said:
So in Britain only conviction results in recording of a crime while in the US it does not matter if there was a conviction?
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My understanding is that any gun-related crime is recorded regardless of whether or not there was a conviction in the US, as opposed to Britain incrementing only those statistics which have resulted in a person being convicted of a gun-related crime. I would think that any unsolved cases are not recorded officially.
 
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