That's easy for criminals. Kill the gun owner, steal his DNA and use the gun to his heart's content.
If it can be done, the criminals will find a way around it. Of that you can be absolutely sure.
Baron Max
Hand Guns - Yes or No
- Thread starter sderenzi
- Start date
That's easy for criminals. Kill the gun owner, steal his DNA and use the gun to his heart's content.
If it can be done, the criminals will find a way around it. Of that you can be absolutely sure.
Baron Max
When was the last time you heard a politician up for election run on a "Go soft on crime!" ticket?
Mandatory sentencing, three-strike rules, mandatory minimum sentences, harsher penalties etc. have all be tried many times, and will be tried again. They don't work.
When will it be time to try something new, do you think?
Max, you really are a piece of work! So your solution to gun crime is to turn the police into a totalitarian death squad?
Serious suggestions only please, you know, ones that could actully sit alongside your constitutional, and basic human rights.
Serious suggestions only please, you know, ones that could actully sit alongside your constitutional, and basic human rights.
Interestingly, just this past election! The District Attorney for Dallas County, a black man, ran on just such a platform ...and won. Almost the entire staff of prosecuting attorney quit within days of the election. The "cop-on-the-street" is saying "Why bother? Why arrest anyone? The DA's just gonna' kick it out!"
First, those weren't "hard on crime" ...they were just slogans! The same bullshit still applied and criminals got off almost as easily as before. And second, it takes some time and good examples for new ideas to come to fruition, to sink in.
In LA, when the "hard on crime" was in place, the gangs began to recruit kids under 16 to do their vengeance killlings ...because those kids just went into juvvie detention and only served two years ...then were right back out on the streets!
Hard on Crime would be where a convicted killer or rapist was shot right after the verdict, then hung on a lamppost on the street for all to see what happens to killers and rapists!
Baron Max
Baron Max said:
How old are you Max, about 12? I really am starting to doubt that you are an adult at all, because you fail to show any grasp of anything, law, human rights, or civil duty.
You demonise criminals, and the only way you want to deal with them, is post facto, and violently.
And you don't?! What ....you worship them? ...consider them just regular ol' normal guys? ...just lovable ol' Santa types?
No wonder you post the way you do about guns!
You can think what you like ...unlike you, I believe in many of the freedoms that you seem so intent on taking away from us.
Baron Max
That, sadly... is too true.
Are both of you really that dim? NOWHERE HAVE I SAID I WANT TO TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY!
All I want to do is for you guys to suggest a sensible way to prevent criminals from getting guns and ammunition, and so far, neither of you have done that. Max has some really naive and stupid suggestions, but I haven't seen a workable proposition from either of you.
Now, if you want to appear reasonable, make some serious suggestions.
Easy! Enforce the laws that we presently have in place.
Theft is illegal, and most criminals get their guns and ammo by theft (not theft from private citizens, but from commercial enterprises).
Criminals carry guns without a permit. Carrying guns without a permit is illegal - enforce that law. Most cops already "know" who the criminals are ...allow reasonable stops and searches for gun.
The use of guns in committing a felony crime usually carries a minimum sentence in prison. Enforce that law instead of plea-bargain it away.
There are others, of course, but the laws that we have in place now are sufficient ....IF we'd enforce those laws ...which we don't because of the mamby-pamby, lilly-livered liberal approach to crime (which is "be very nice to criminals and give them every possible chance to escape justice").
Phlog, you claim that you don't want to take our guns, yet that's exactly what you've been wanting by all of the stupid suggestions you've been making. Everything you've suggested has been to "control" the law-abiding citizens, with virtually no suggestions for taking guns from criminals.
Baron Max
But Max, criminals don't obey the law! You keep telling me that! How to enforce thse laws then Max? Your Police death squads start kicking in doors and asking for papers, hmm?
Serious suggestions only, please.
I gave you a serious suggestion ....enforce the laws that are already in place. There's no need for any new laws to keep guns away from criminals.
Baron Max
My personal opinion here is that we shouldn't even be looking in that direction, though we should definitely enforce those laws more severely. Rather, I'm realistic and think we'll never get rid of firearms, so instead of limit how civilians may acquire them for defense or sporting purposes, allow them full access with proper licensing. Besides, if gun deaths are such a problem, I suggest you begin banning swimming pools, motor vehicles, alcohol, cigarettes, certain foods and even doctors... because they are responsible for a lot more death than guns. Add to that the fact that a sizable portion of all firearm deaths are suicides, and you have a non-issue.
It's just emotional rhetoric and feel-good politics.
It's just emotional rhetoric and feel-good politics.
And I asked how you intend to enforce those laws Max, when you are so fond of pointing out that criminals do not obey laws!!!!!!!!
OK, here we agree. First you have to have a background check, prove your safety/accuracy on a range test, and then show you have as safe place to store the gun, and then you get a license. Only by showing this license can you buy or sell guns or ammunition, and each forearm is registered against an individual, and the only way it can be removed from your license is by having it added to a different license, or by reporting the gun lost, stolen, or destroyed, which will have to involve the Police. Do yo uagree with these criteria?
Drownings are people accidentally killing themelves. Motor vehicle deaths are for the most part accidents. Alcohol and cigrarettes harm the individual that chooses to use them, no passers by, so nothing in your list really comparable.
About half, giving you 16,000 gun homicides per year, and that means it's still an issue. You can't just wave your hand over that figure and make it go away.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
70 million more guns in the U.S. 38% lower crime, the latest fully researched crime statistics from the FBI, the statistic's cover the years from 1996 to 2005, the murder rate dropped 43%, rape was down 25%, robbery was down 48%, and aggravated assault went down 33%, this is in conjunction with a Bureau of Justice Statistics report that crime in 2005 is at the lowest rate in the 32 years of their reports.
How does that stop thieves from stealing guns in shipments or at retail/wholesale stores?????
All you've done with the above is make law-abiding citizens do all that shit, which in most states, they already have to do in some form or other (with handguns). So what have you changed? How have you made anything better or prevented crime with handguns? Nothing you've suggested above will do anything to prevent criminals from getting and using guns in crimes.
Baron Max
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
phlogistician, you just decide to enforce the laws, that is the problem with the criminals now, we don't enforce the laws already on the books, which then allows the criminals to know that the chances of being charged with a gun crime are minimal, and in most states conviction of gun crime carry mandatory sentences, no parole, and those sentences have to be served first before the rest of the other sentences can count.
So we have the assault weapon ban and the Brady bill to thank for this? ;-)
You are trying to imply causality of reduction in crime against increased gun ownership, I merely counter that with the Brady Bill and Assualt weapons ban, and we are no further forward with yoru fatuous stats, are we?
Wow, that simple eh? So why isn't it happening?
Max, check the stats on guns taken in domestic robberies. The stats indicate that something liek 50% more guns on the illegal market come from domestic robberies, rather than wholesale ones. So citizens having to keep their guns locked away would have a large imapct on illegal guns in circulation.
Anyway that was a diversion Max, how are you going to enforce those laws, as you are fond of stating, criminals do not obey laws!