Green Chartruese, Allergies, and Anaphylaxis.

[Trippy]

I suspect it's probably something of a long shot, but I don't suppose anybody knows, or has heard anything about allergic reactions to Green Chartreuse, and likely causative agents?

I've had the vile stuff twice, thoroughly enjoyed it both times, but both times have resulted in my lungs filling with fluid, and the only time I've experienced anything like this is after drinking Chartruese.

Which leads me to my next question - does that count as anaphylaxis? No hospital treatment was required (although in retrospect an ambulance should probably have been called the first time, but it wasn't). It also seems to be a delayed reaction, like maybe it's a metabolite of something in the Chartruese that I've reacted to, rather than something in the chartruese proper.

 

[rpenner]

http://www.safeandyummy.com/2010/06/alcohol-and-food-allergies/
"Chartreuse – contains over a hundred herbal extracts. I’m not interested in trying this, or trying to figure out if I’m allergic to any of them, I’m sure I’m allergic to at least one."

It could be Basil. http://www.allallergy.net/fapaidfind.cfm?cdeoc=120
It could be Saffron. http://books.google.com/books?id=ID...=onepage&q=chartreuse liqueur allergy&f=false

In addition Chartreuse, other liquors, and tyramine-containing foods such as bleu cheese and beer interfere with Monoamine oxidase inhibitors http://www.flexyx.com/E/Eutonyl.html But this does not seem to be your particular issue.

There shall be no Chartreuse served (except on request) at the June 25 meeting celebrating May Day 2011. http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=29307

 

[Trippy]

http://www.safeandyummy.com/2010/06/alcohol-and-food-allergies/
"Chartreuse – contains over a hundred herbal extracts. I’m not interested in trying this, or trying to figure out if I’m allergic to any of them, I’m sure I’m allergic to at least one."

132, to be precise (or maybe 131 - dependent on whether your drinking yellow chartreuse or green chartruese).

It could be Basil. http://www.allallergy.net/fapaidfind.cfm?cdeoc=120
It could be Saffron. http://books.google.com/books?id=ID...=onepage&q=chartreuse liqueur allergy&f=false

Interesting - this is one of my concerns.
Is it something that I might encounter?
Is it something that I already encounter that might explain something?

I'd like to avoid it, if I can, but I need to know what to avoid first.

In addition Chartreuse, other liquors, and tyramine-containing foods such as bleu cheese and beer interfere with Monoamine oxidase inhibitors http://www.flexyx.com/E/Eutonyl.html But this does not seem to be your particular issue.

I'm not aware of having anything even remotely similar upon consumption of beer and blue cheese (even when both are consumed at the same time).

[There shall be no Chartreuse served (except on request) at the June 25 meeting celebrating May Day 2011. http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=29307

Good to know

 

[chimpkin]

@ Trippy-I'm not a Medic-but lungs filling with fluid is probably anaphylaxis and most certainly can escalate into a life-threatening reaction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulmonary_edema

Do NOT drink that stuff!

I would suggest keeping a regular-sized bottle of children's Benadryl handy. Check with a doctor if it's a good idea to chug the whole bottle or not, but I was told that's one way to keep anaphylaxis from killing you on the way to the hospital.

What would we do without your cranky and knowledgeable presence around here?

 

[Asguard]

Actually no its not anaphalaxis, anaphalaxis is defined as a stystemic alergic or anaphalactoid (not important) reaction involving 3 or more body systems. To clincially diognose you need a drop in blood pressure, broncospasm and flushing of the skin.

What your discribing sounds like acute pulmonary odema Ans I have never herd of an alergic cause to that but a chemical burn of the airways will cause that

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I've had the vile stuff twice, thoroughly enjoyed it both times, but both times have resulted in my lungs filling with fluid, and the only time I've experienced anything like this is after drinking Chartruese.

Do NOT drink that stuff!

Yes, I think that’s the salient take-home message here!!!

 

[Trippy]

Do NOT drink that stuff!

Yes, I think that’s the salient take-home message here!!!

As I said, I've drunk it twice, haven't touched the stuff in years - not since I figured out that was what was causing the reaction.

What would we do without your cranky and knowledgeable presence around here?

:3

On a side note, what got me thinking about it (again) was the fact that my niece was admitted to A&E last night as a Category 2 because some... Individual of questionable work ethic, intellectual capacity and social worth... Forgot to clean their work station down when they switched from cutting cheese to cutting luncheon - which my brother gave to his daughter believing it to be dairy free.

 

[Trippy]

Actually no its not anaphalaxis, anaphalaxis is defined as a stystemic alergic or anaphalactoid (not important) reaction involving 3 or more body systems. To clincially diognose you need a drop in blood pressure, broncospasm and flushing of the skin.

You don't have enough informtation to exclude it as a cause, and given that at the time my lungs were doing their best to vacate my chest cavity by an oral route, I'm not sure I would have noticed if I was flush, or if my blood pressure droped (I get episodes of Vasovagal Synope including during coughing fits), and given that I'm asthmatic, and the fact that there's a couple of other complications, I would be unsurprised to discover that all the symptoms you describe were present, however, I simply did not notice them, or dismissed them as consequences of the whole lung filling/coughing thing.

 

[Asguard]

Trippy after reading your post I spoke to the two other people I was with, 1 a nurse and the other a former volly ambo and both long term St john members and I asked them had they ever herd of an allergic pathway causing APO (fluid in the lungs). One said flat no and the other said it was theoretical possible but he had never herd of it. Now the question is do you know the difference between fluid or a wheeze but if your an asthmatic I assume you do know what an asthmatic attack feels like. Its very unlikly that you would have fluid in the lungs by alergic pathway because the blood pressure drops because the capillary bed opens up which means there isn't the pulmonary pressure to cause APO. now as I said there are non cardiac caused APO by break down of the membranes in the lungs which cause the free flow of fluid but this is an airway burn type senario

 

[Asguard]

Oh and on triage catigories. The way we rember them is 1 dead, 2 dying, 3 sick

 

[chimpkin]

wait...#1 is still you job?
Is that like dead but jump-startable, or definitely dead?
(What is an AED if not a jumpstarting device?)

 

[Asguard]

Dead is an arest, it also includes some people who sent strictly dead (unresponsive drug ODs, very large burns, very major bleeding) but if we do nothing they certainly will be dead and yes they are definitely our job.

On AEDs no they sent jump starts, they are closer to the reset button on a computer. The reason I draw the destintion is because of the TV shows which show someone with a flat ECG being shocked and commingle back. Its crap, asystolie (flat line) can't be defribulated. The aims of defribulation is to clear the "junk" (fribulation) and escape rythams (ventricular tachicardia), with the hope that the SA node with reasert control and bring back a rytham which will allow good blood flow (hopefully sinus rytham).

There is a great utube video which shows an open heart in ventricular fribilulation with the ECG next to it. It then shows the heart being defribulated and beating rythmically (normal sinus).

I apologize if this post is disjointed, I was doing other things and comming back to it so if anything needs clarification or doesn't make sense point it out and I will fix it

 

[Trippy]

Trippy after reading your post I spoke to the two other people I was with, 1 a nurse and the other a former volly ambo and both long term St john members and I asked them had they ever herd of an allergic pathway causing APO (fluid in the lungs).

National Library of Medicine, National Institute of Health; MedlinePlus - Anaphylaxis
Lists Pulmonary Edema as one of the signs.

One said flat no and the other said it was theoretical possible but he had never herd of it. Now the question is do you know the difference between fluid or a wheeze but if your an asthmatic I assume you do know what an asthmatic attack feels like. Its very unlikly that you would have fluid in the lungs by alergic pathway because the blood pressure drops because the capillary bed opens up which means there isn't the pulmonary pressure to cause APO. now as I said there are non cardiac caused APO by break down of the membranes in the lungs which cause the free flow of fluid but this is an airway burn type senario

My assertion regarding fluid build up has nothing to do with wheezing, it has everything to do with the sheer volume of mucous I hacked up - and by hacked up I mean literaly coughing, not a euphamism for puking.

Now, the first time it happened to me the girl I was sleeping with at the time had to throw out a pillow and change her sheets because of the sheer volume of mucous I was coughing up. Seems to me to be a fairly good indicator of fluid building up on the lungs - of course, it occurs to me reading that NIH page, that nasal congestion can be a symptom of anaphylaxis, and I do have a history of severe post nasal drip, however, ordinarily when I have a sever coughing fit associated with post nasal drip, it also leads to retching and vomitting, however, I have no recollection of any similar events on either occasion.

 

[Trippy]

On AEDs no they sent jump starts, they are closer to the reset button on a computer. The reason I draw the destintion is because of the TV shows which show someone with a flat ECG being shocked and commingle back. Its crap, asystolie (flat line) can't be defribulated. The aims of defribulation is to clear the "junk" (fribulation) and escape rythams (ventricular tachicardia), with the hope that the SA node with reasert control and bring back a rytham which will allow good blood flow (hopefully sinus rytham).

Seconded - and I'm not even a medic.
Although, as I understand it, if there is some (weak) fibrilation going on, then cardiac massage combined with defibrilation may lead to normal sinus rythm.

 

[Asguard]

Was 1 word away from finishing this before when my phone died.

Anyway what I left out before was why its like a reset, not a jumpstart and why it matters. With a jump start your applying a new power sourse to replace the flat battery so that the car will tick over. With defib your doing the oposite, your STOPPING all electical activity with the hope that will reset the system normally (or as far up the chain as possible). Why does it matter? Because just like pushing the switch on a computer when the power is off wont do anything, defib with no electric garbage to.clear wont do anything either.

That doesn't mean to say there arnt treatments for someone who is flatlineing, they just don't have good patient outcomes associated with them. CPR (to maintain and restore some oxygenation to the myocardium and brain) adrenilin, atropine are all used. We had a patient who was brain dead and we put 3 stacked doses of adrenilin into him along with CPR and we got a radial (wrist) pulse back. Didn't change that he was brain dead but the comment from the intesive care paramedic we.were working with was that adrenilin will get output from a stone.

On the matter of very fine VF I will just say that's the subject of a massive world wide study and inmates haven't seen the results. The question is do you get a better patient outcome with people who have been down longer with no intervention if you start with just CPR before you start defib and adrenilin so you can try and reoxygenate the cells before trying to get them working

On the matter of pulmonary odema I'm still looking into it. Mucus plugging is definitely associated with anaphalaxis (which is the same as asthma + swelling of the upper airway and hypovolemia) but I haven't herd of actual fluid leaking from the blood vessles like APO. I guess one way to describe it is that mucus plugging is a blockage. Guess its similar to the way babies CHOAK (not DROWN) on milk except in this its the small broncioles which block up with the mucus plugs and initially at least they will allow air IN but not out causing hyperinflation. In pulmonary odema the alveolars littlerally drown in fluid preventing gas exchange. So you sit them up and the fluid drains to the bottom of the lungs and hopefully with O2 and GTN to drop there blood pressure you can keep them comfortable till you can get them to a CPAP machine. Now I know your not medically trained and so I'm making destintions where you might not nessaraly do so (mucuss is a fluid too ect) but I do find this facinating. Asthma and anaphalaxis are areas I'm best at at Uni so this factates me

 

[chimpkin]

When I had that chronic bronchitis +undiagnosed sinusitis + no insurance thing going on...I once coughed up a mucus plug that looked like a green elbow noodle, and was the same size and roughly the same texture-you know, a cooked one.

I was always hacking up mucus in a variety of colors for about a year...I felt like Bill The Cat from the Bloom County strip...

I once deliberately expectorated all my postnasal drip into a container one night at work during that time period, and collected six ounces of the stuff before I got bored. That was in about eight hours.

Some nights I went to work barely able to walk...couldn't get enough air. Needed the money. Couldn't lose the job.