Gravity slows down time.

[chinglu]

Of course you can't,,,,just as any peer review outlet would wipe their arse with your proposal.
Which tells a great deal about the delusional state you are sufferring in.

So, anyway, you can't convinvce anyone here, obviously any peer review outlet would send you packing, so where does that leave you?
Wandering the world, with an idea that would change everything and everybody, but nobody is taking any notice of you......Quite frustrating I would Imagine.

I would not put this out there even though it's true. So, spare your arse and take pleasure in the fact that you can't do anything about my conclusions.

 

[Lakon]

Chinglu, you know, you are causing embarrassment even to your own case.

An outside observer (me for instance) sees that you are unwilling or incapable of dealing with the simple issue of 'define what a clock is / does' without resorting to diversions. The question has been put to you so many times now, but you continue to fudge it.

It can only be assumed then, that anything you have to say beyond that, is also suspect, and probably fudged.

One last time, forgetting about the earths rotation, etc, very simply,

Define what a clock is / does

Just pretend the earth doesn't exist for the sake of the exersise.

 

[paddoboy]

I would not put this out there even though it's true. So, spare your arse and take pleasure in the fact that you can't do anything about my conclusions.

[1] It's not true....That's why you languish in pseudoscience and have been banned from previous forums.....
[2] You have no conclusions and no theory, just a mish mash of childish kindergarten like proposals...eg That clocks are hardwired to the Earth's movements.
[3] There's nothing wrong with my arse, although I would be keeping your own covered...

 

[paddoboy]

Just to add further evidence invalidating the stupid idiotic idea of chinglu.......
The current rotation of the Earth is not constant, in fact a day a few million years ago, it revolved a lot faster then it does today, making the day around half the length we currently experience, and the Moon was half its orbital distance, compared to now.
The future has the Earth slowing even more, so much so that a day will be equal to a lunar month, and the Moon will be a lot further from Earth then it is now.
Also to add even more spice, the Earth will be tidally locked to the Moon, just as the Moon is now tidally locked to the Earth.


Now that's certainly going to stuff our clocks up somewhat, hey what?

 

[chinglu]

[1] It's not true....That's why you languish in pseudoscience and have been banned from previous forums.....
[2] You have no conclusions and no theory, just a mish mash of childish kindergarten like proposals...eg That clocks are hardwired to the Earth's movements.
[3] There's nothing wrong with my arse, although I would be keeping your own covered...

You can type what you want, but there is no refutation.

 

[chinglu]

Just to add further evidence invalidating the stupid idiotic idea of chinglu.......
The current rotation of the Earth is not constant, in fact a day a few million years ago, it revolved a lot faster then it does today, making the day around half the length we currently experience, and the Moon was half its orbital distance, compared to now.
The future has the Earth slowing even more, so much so that a day will be equal to a lunar month, and the Moon will be a lot further from Earth then it is now.
Also to add even more spice, the Earth will be tidally locked to the Moon, just as the Moon is now tidally locked to the Earth.


Now that's certainly going to stuff our clocks up somewhat, hey what?

Well, you are certainly able to offer your definition of clock and time for humans that has nothing to do with the rotation of the earth.

Why don't you spend time on that task.

 

[paddoboy]

Well, you are certainly able to offer your definition of clock and time for humans that has nothing to do with the rotation of the earth.

Why don't you spend time on that task.

You need to grow up and stop being a liar and dishonest.
The length of the day has everything to do with the rotation of the Earth, as any first grader would know....

 

[paddoboy]

Again chinglu your problem is you have no idea of basic science, and the situation with regards to the Earth/Moon system and tidal gravitational effects between the two.....
Other examples of what I say are observed in the solar system...Pluto/Charon system for one......some of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn and the mother planets.
Really, go back to school!

 

[chinglu]

Chinglu, you know, you are causing embarrassment even to your own case.

An outside observer (me for instance) sees that you are unwilling or incapable of dealing with the simple issue of 'define what a clock is / does' without resorting to diversions. The question has been put to you so many times now, but you continue to fudge it.

It can only be assumed then, that anything you have to say beyond that, is also suspect, and probably fudged.

One last time, forgetting about the earths rotation, etc, very simply,

Define what a clock is / does

Just pretend the earth doesn't exist for the sake of the exersise.

I want to pretend the earth does not exist for time but that means GPS does not exists either.

That would be stupid.

Can you explain exactly why your proposal is not stupid?

 

[chinglu]

Again chinglu your problem is you have no idea of basic science, and the situation with regards to the Earth/Moon system and tidal gravitational effects between the two.....
Other examples of what I say are observed in the solar system...Pluto/Charon system for one......some of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn and the mother planets.
Really, go back to school!

The traveling twin witnessed 12 earth orbits and his clock said he only witnessed 10 earth orbits.

This is what SR claims and this is a contradiction.

That is what I have proven.

Focus on this rather than your baseless nonsense.

 

[paddoboy]

The traveling twin witnessed 12 earth orbits and his clock said he only witnessed 10 earth orbits.

This is what SR claims and this is a contradiction.

That is what I have proven.

Focus on this rather than your baseless nonsense.

You really are a silly boy.........
I [and others have proven you wrong and in error in over 44 pages and 870 posts.
Everyone now, including those that were giving you some time, have disowned you.
No wonder you just keep playing in pseudoscience...
You are afraid to admit you are wrong [and silly]
You have been logically refuted many times [logic appears to be something you are not a party to obviously....
You would never take it beyond pseudoscience because they would laugh in your face.
The whole world would laugh at you, instead of just a hundred or so on a forum.....
You have also been banned from another forum, becuase of dodgy maths, inconclusive statements, and no evidence to support your claims, havn't you

We'll continue to laugh.

 

[paddoboy]

I would not put this out there even though it's true. So, spare your arse and take pleasure in the fact that you can't do anything about my conclusions.

Of course you would not put it out there...afraid, scared of the world laughing at you...appearing a bigger fool then you are now.
Of course if you were right, you would have it splattered around the world...your overly inflated ego tells us all that.

I don't take any pleasure in you being wrong by the way, I actually pity you, and I certainly cannot help what conclusions you arrive at, no matter how stupid.
But do yourself a favor....watch the videos I have supplied re SR/GR, and check out how gravitational interactions between the Earth/Moon system, varies the Earth's revolutionary period, which affects the length of day, months etc, and see how that will affect the length of days/months in the future.
It's really basic physics, and as stubborn and as egotistical you are, and as wrong as you are, I would still like to help out.
You need to take defeat graciously like a man, just as Einstein did on occasions.

 

[paddoboy]

Tidal Coupling and Gravitational Locking

Some important consequences of tidal forces in the Solar System include:
Tidal forces will distort any body experiencing differential gravitational forces. This will normally occur for bodies of finite extent in gravitational fields because of the strong distance dependence of the gravitational force. Thus, not only the oceans, but the body of the Earth is distorted by the Lunar gravity. However, because the Earth is rigid compared with the oceans, the "tides" in the body of the Earth are much smaller than in the oceans.

There is a limiting radius for the orbit of one body around another, inside of which the tidal forces are so large that no large solid objects can exist that are held together only by gravitational forces. This radius is called the Roche Limit. Thus, solid objects put into orbit inside the Roche limit will be torn apart by tidal forces, and conversely, solid objects cannot grow by accreting into larger objects if they orbit inside the Roche limit. A famous example is the rings of Saturn: because they lie inside the Roche limit for Saturn, they cannot be solid objects held together by gravitation and must be composed of many small particles.
Obviously solid objects can exist inside the Roche limit (for example, spacecraft) but they must be held together by forces other than gravity. This is true of a spacecraft, where chemical forces between the atoms and molecules are much larger than the gravitational forces.

The tidal forces are reciprocal. Not only will the Moon induce tides in the body of the Earth and the Earth's oceans, but by the same argument the gravitational field of the Earth will induce differential forces and therefore tides in the body of the Moon. Again, because the body of the Moon is quite rigid these Lunar tides will be very small, but they occur.
This reciprocal induction of tides in the body of the Earth and the Moon leads to a complicated coupling of the rotational and orbital motions of the two objects. These tidal forces and associated couplings have the following general effects:
The interior of the Earth and Moon are heated by the tides in their bodies, just as a paper clip is heated by constant bending. This effect is very small for the Earth and Moon, but we shall see that it can be dramatic for other objects that experience much larger differential gravitational forces and therefore much larger tidal forces. For example, we shall see that the tidal forces exerted by Jupiter on its moon Io are so large that the solid surface of Io is raised and lowered by hundreds of meters twice in each rotational period. This motion so heats the interior of Io that it is probably mostly molten; as a consequence, Io is covered with active volcanos and is the geologically most active object in the Solar System.
The tidal coupling of the orbital and rotational motion tends to synchronize them. In the simplest instance, the period of rotation for the two bodies and the orbital period eventually become exactly equal because of this tidal coupling (and as a result, the size of the orbit is changed in such a way as to conserve angular momentum for the entire system). This is called gravitational (or tidal) locking, because as the two objects revolve around their common center of mass each keeps the same side turned toward the other.


Tidal Coupling in the Earth-Moon System

Thus, the fact that the rotational period of the Moon and the orbital period of the Earth-Moon system are of the same length is not an accident. Presumably this was not always true, but over billions of years the tidal coupling of the Earth and the Moon has led to this synchronization. In the case of the Earth-Moon system the synchronization is not yet complete. The Earth is slowly decreasing its rotational period and eventually the Earth and Moon will have exactly the same rotational period, and these will also exactly equal the orbital period. At the same time, the separation between the Earth and Moon will slowly increase in just such a way as to conserve angular momentum for the entire system.
Thus, billions of years from now the Earth will always keep the same face turned toward the Moon, just as the Moon already always keeps the same face turned toward the Earth. We will encounter other examples of such tidal locking in other pairs of objects in the Solar System.


http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/moon/tidal.html

 

[Lakon]

I want to pretend the earth does not exist for time but that means GPS does not exists either.
That would be stupid.
Can you explain exactly why your proposal is not stupid?

My proposal is not stupid because we're not yet talking about GPS - yet. And if the earth did not exist, that does not mean that clocks would not exist.

I see you've been banned for a couple of weeks. If and when you return, see if you can address the simple issue of;

- Define what a clock is
- Define what a clock does

Without these simple questions been addressed and agreed upon, any further discussion is just obfuscation from you and plenty of wiggle room for you.

All these posts, all these pages, and it's taken these two simple points to show that your arguement may be flawed at the most fundemental level. See how you go with them.

 

[paddoboy]

All these posts, all these pages, and it's taken these two simple points to show that your arguement may be flawed at the most fundemental level. See how you go with them.

May be flawed????
I'm sure chinglu has known that his argument "IS" flawed at the most basic level, from day 1. It's not like this is the first time he has taken on the task of showing in this and other forums that SR/GR is invalid.
It eventually gets to a point where the continuing ignoring of statements, evidence and links that show he is wrong, borders on trolling in its most annoying form.

 

[chinglu]

My proposal is not stupid because we're not yet talking about GPS - yet. And if the earth did not exist, that does not mean that clocks would not exist.

I see you've been banned for a couple of weeks. If and when you return, see if you can address the simple issue of;

- Define what a clock is
- Define what a clock does

Without these simple questions been addressed and agreed upon, any further discussion is just obfuscation from you and plenty of wiggle room for you.

All these posts, all these pages, and it's taken these two simple points to show that your arguement may be flawed at the most fundemental level. See how you go with them.

You are a little confused here, I don't need wiggle room.

I have made it clear over and over.

GPS defines clock time in terms of the earth's rotation.

A clock is a device that measures the earth's rotation. This is acceptable in the science community.

Now, you may define clock time as a function of the frequency of some atom at some temperature in the stationary system.

However, over a 10 year period, you can adjust this "clock" to the earth's rotation or the earth's orbit. Say it is the orbit.

Then, you know there is some t difference between the frequency clock and the orbit of the earth over 10 years. So, these 2 clocks can be compared. Now, we get to the task of comparing this clock in the earth frame. We know how to adjust it using t. However, we note in the traveling twin frame, this adjustment is completely different since that so called SR clock claims less that 12 earth orbits occurred for that clock yet 12 earth orbits were witnessed.

As you should know, the rules of physics must be the same frame to frame. Yet, we find within the earth frame, it uses t for the clock adjustment. Yet the traveling frame uses t' to adjust its clock to the earth's orbit.

So, we find 12 earth orbits for both frames and yet we find 2 different clock adjustments. That proves the frequency definition of a clock fails under conditions of motion.

 

[paddoboy]

You are a little confused here, I don't need wiggle room.

I have made it clear over and over.

GPS defines clock time in terms of the earth's rotation.

A clock is a device that measures the earth's rotation. This is acceptable in the science community.

Wrong: A clock is a device that is synchronised with the Earth's rotation and orbit periods.
The Earth's rotation and orbital periods have and do change over time.
In a few billion years, one Earth day, will be equal to a luna month.

However, we note in the traveling twin frame, this adjustment is completely different since that so called SR clock claims less that 12 earth orbits occurred for that clock yet 12 earth orbits were witnessed.

WRONG: You insidiously ignore FoR's which you ignored before your banning also.
While a travelling twin may witness 12 Earth orbits with a very powerful telescope, he witnesses it in less local time due to gravitational time dilation...His clocks tick slower due to gravity.....his biological systems age less for the same reasons.
In other words time is not a fixed entity which you want it to be......It varies from place to place.

As you should know, the rules of physics must be the same frame to frame. Yet, we find within the earth frame, it uses t for the clock adjustment. Yet the traveling frame uses t' to adjust its clock to the earth's orbit.

So, we find 12 earth orbits for both frames and yet we find 2 different clock adjustments. That proves the frequency definition of a clock fails under conditions of motion.

??????
Time dilation is observed, and accepted by all scientists.
If you have evidence to the contrary, get it peer reviewed. I mean real evidence, not rehashed nonsense about how you interprete things.

 

[paddoboy]

I would not put this out there even though it's true. So, spare your arse and take pleasure in the fact that you can't do anything about my conclusions.

Of course I cannot do anything about your conclusions. It takes a man, and a humble man like Einstein to admit when he is wrong.

 

[chinglu]

Wrong: A clock is a device that is synchronised with the Earth's rotation and orbit periods.
The Earth's rotation and orbital periods have and do change over time.
In a few billion years, one Earth day, will be equal to a luna month.








WRONG: You insidiously ignore FoR's which you ignored before your banning also.
While a travelling twin may witness 12 Earth orbits with a very powerful telescope, he witnesses it in less local time due to gravitational time dilation...His clocks tick slower due to gravity.....his biological systems age less for the same reasons.
In other words time is not a fixed entity which you want it to be......It varies from place to place.




??????
Time dilation is observed, and accepted by all scientists.
If you have evidence to the contrary, get it peer reviewed. I mean real evidence, not rehashed nonsense about how you interprete things.

OK, if you think clocks are synched with the earth, then since the earth twin and the traveling twin witness 12 earth orbits, then your clocks should agree with this fact.

That is the point of this thread. Good job!!!!

 

[paddoboy]

OK, if you think clocks are synched with the earth, then since the earth twin and the traveling twin witness 12 earth orbits, then your clocks should agree with this fact.

That is the point of this thread. Good job!!!!

I always do a good job. I wish you could do the same, instead of purposely misinterpreting what people are trying to tell you.
While the clocks are synched with the Earth's rotation, they are not hard-wired to it....time is not a constant and varies according to FoR's and the Earth's movements are also not constant.
It seems your forced holiday has not done you any good...that's a shame.