God: To be or not to be . . .

U

universaldistress

Extravagantly Introverted ...
Valued Senior Member
How would the world look without the concept of god.

Two scenarios I wish to explore here:

A, The concept of god was never conceived; how would the social development of Humankind have differed through the establishment of civilisation stage up until the present?

B, If the concept of god was suddenly flushed from the present day world; how would this improve/deteriorate the world we see around us?

If you have another scenario of a similar ilk please feel free to suggest this further topic.
 
universaldistress said:
Thank god.

I am one of that number.
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We still have the Bible Belt here, and Bigfoot, but the once stable North East's religious belief is fading fast, heading towards oblivion one day. Maybe I should move to California.

Religion will be changing, where it remains, as all can't happen at once.

Religion will eventually fade into oblivion, but in the interim it will change, an initiation of the slide. The stodgy elevation of doctrine over ethics will no longer carry the day and there will be less emphasis on believing and more on belonging. "Apostolic succession" will go away and all will become more democratic, much like it already is in the southern hemisphere, where, for the first time, more Christians can be found than in the north. The Bible will be seen to be of but human construction, a result of human instinct, frailty, fear, and wisdom. People actively speaking to each other will come to replace passive readings from scripture.
 
I think if the world was wiped clean of religion right now you would get a lot of people doing crazy selfish things. I think of a guy I saw on Stossle and his freeloader series . Stossle asked him if he felt guilty for swindling and abusing the system. He said " Why should I care "
So if theists sin against moral rhetoric of religion with the fear of damnation how much more would they with out it. We might have one big orgy going down . O.K. changed my mind .
 
SciWriter said:
We still have the Bible Belt here, and Bigfoot, but the once stable North East's religious belief is fading fast, heading towards oblivion one day. Maybe I should move to California.

Religion will be changing, where it remains, as all can't happen at once.

Religion will eventually fade into oblivion, but in the interim it will change, an initiation of the slide. The stodgy elevation of doctrine over ethics will no longer carry the day and there will be less emphasis on believing and more on belonging. "Apostolic succession" will go away and all will become more democratic, much like it already is in the southern hemisphere, where, for the first time, more Christians can be found than in the north. The Bible will be seen to be of but human construction, a result of human instinct, frailty, fear, and wisdom. People actively speaking to each other will come to replace passive readings from scripture.
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Harvey Masters died of cancer dude
 
universaldistress said:
How would the world look without the concept of god.

Two scenarios I wish to explore here:

A, The concept of god was never conceived; how would the social development of Humankind have differed through the establishment of civilisation stage up until the present?

B, If the concept of god was suddenly flushed from the present day world; how would this improve/deteriorate the world we see around us?

If you have another scenario of a similar ilk please feel free to suggest this further topic.
Click to expand...

Probably more pertinent to examine the history of atheistic ideological movements that have been socially implemented.

17th Century "virtuous atheism"

giving rise to

Hegelianism (a group that Karl Marx brought to fame)

which in turn gives us the following present "substance" of atheism that has outlived the ideological schools that it was born out of

The rejection of religion on sceptical grounds in non-Marxist countries could of course be built on Marxist belief as well. Although the influence of Marx has declined, some of his key claims, such as the idea that ‘religion is the opium of the masses’ are still supported by modern, non-Marxist, atheists. The influence of Freud in dismissing religion as neurotic is a similar case. While Freudianism is largely dismissed as pseudo-science, the idea of religion being based on wish-fulfillment or repressed drives remains. Similarly, the idea of atheism as encouraging the freedom to create one’s own meaning in life spreads far beyond its Existentialist roots, and not only strict positivists reject religious language as empty or meaningless.

That said, it tends to be the nature of implementing social ideologies (atheistic or otherwise) that the ideals suffer at the hands of implementation (the old quality vs quantity problem) - for instance the disaster of 20th century communism (as a consequence of the previous two centuries of ideological thought) effectively disabled the idealism of the hegelians from taking further root.

Now of course, there is a new mood of atheist idealism (new atheism). Interestingly enough, some of their key points involve drawing an intrinsic connection between religion and violence while simultaneously distancing Stalin (arguably the most violent personality in 20th century politics) from the ideology of atheism.
 
IDK - I always read where theists are asking what's to stop us atheists from killing, raping and pillaging. I can only assume that if they suddenly had their watchdog taken away from them that they would see nothing wrong with killing, raping and pillaging.
 
gmilam said:
IDK - I always read where theists are asking what's to stop us atheists from killing, raping and pillaging. I can only assume that if they suddenly had their watchdog taken away from them that they would see nothing wrong with killing, raping and pillaging.
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idealism that may be rampant in theism is a separate subject (although it tends to be the nature of diametrically opposed radical ideologies that they translate into identical nonsense on the ground)

My point is simply that the idealism of Hegelianism bought a bullet
 
lightgigantic said:
Probably more pertinent to examine the history of atheistic ideological movements that have been socially implemented.

17th Century "virtuous atheism"

giving rise to

Hegelianism (a group that Karl Marx brought to fame)

which in turn gives us the following present "substance" of atheism that has outlived the ideological schools that it was born out of

The rejection of religion on sceptical grounds in non-Marxist countries could of course be built on Marxist belief as well. Although the influence of Marx has declined, some of his key claims, such as the idea that ‘religion is the opium of the masses’ are still supported by modern, non-Marxist, atheists. The influence of Freud in dismissing religion as neurotic is a similar case. While Freudianism is largely dismissed as pseudo-science, the idea of religion being based on wish-fulfillment or repressed drives remains. Similarly, the idea of atheism as encouraging the freedom to create one’s own meaning in life spreads far beyond its Existentialist roots, and not only strict positivists reject religious language as empty or meaningless.

That said, it tends to be the nature of implementing social ideologies (atheistic or otherwise) that the ideals suffer at the hands of implementation (the old quality vs quantity problem) - for instance the disaster of 20th century communism (as a consequence of the previous two centuries of ideological thought) effectively disabled the idealism of the hegelians from taking further root.

Now of course, there is a new mood of atheist idealism (new atheism). Interestingly enough, some of their key points involve drawing an intrinsic connection between religion and violence while simultaneously distancing Stalin (arguably the most violent personality in 20th century politics) from the ideology of atheism.
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Good post, lg.
 
SciWriter said:
How is he related to the post?
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Big Foot please stand up , He was the guy in the monkey suit . I did not make that up . It was a real event when we were building the highway maintenance station in Cabbage patch California for Caltran. . They laughed and talked about it all night when they got back to camp as they were drinking. Even told how they made the casts of a big foot from Harvey's foot. They laughed and joked about it right up to the time they died . A lot of people thought they made it up , but Me my brother sister and Mother were there when they got back from doing the deed . They had the foot casts with them when they got back . Harvey Masters was the guy in the film footage that showed big foot running in the forest . No joke
 
Me-Ki-Gal said:
Big Foot please stand up , He was the guy in the monkey suit . I did not make that up . It was a real event when we were building the highway maintenance station in Cabbage patch California for Caltran. . They laughed and talked about it all night when they got back to camp as they were drinking. Even told how they made the casts of a big foot from Harvey's foot. They laughed and joked about it right up to the time they died . A lot of people thought they made it up , but Me my brother sister and Mother were there when they got back from doing the deed . They had the foot casts with them when they got back . Harvey Masters was the guy in the film footage that showed big foot running in the forest . No joke
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I remember now.

You are indeed very famous, as I just said about you in another thread.
 
SciWriter said:
I remember now.

You are indeed very famous, as I just said about you in another thread.
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I don't know about being Famous . My life does seem like I have met and interacted with some big personalities . Seems like they are always getting me to do something for them at no cost and when they ask what they can do for me i always tell them to say my name were ever they go. Maybe they did pay there bill . Don't know . People sure seem to look at me funny with little smirks on there faces these days . I was in traffic the other day and the kids in the adjacent car were going ape shit crazy waving and laughing . I wondered what is up with that . The one kid was like in a f--cking trance staring at me burning a hole like a deer in head lights . I had to check my nose to make sure I didn't have big green buggers hanging out of it.
Back to the post at hand :
The masses still need religion if you ask Me . Think for a minute before anyone disputes this . I know lots of people that don't believe in god . They don't say they are Athiests they just act like there is no God by the things they do . They Cheat and swindle there way to the top of the economic ladder by any means possible . If you ask them if they believe in God they will say loudly F---ck no . I came from my Mothers Pussy . Then they go about there business of creating there personal empire. Given monetary gain is the god shit loads of Americans worship think about how people on the edge of getting there perceived fare share (that are religious) would run for the money even harder than they do . I am not saying that Atheists can't be moral . They can be plenty moral. What I am saying is if you remove the barrier many of the people would take on the ideology of " Why should I care . Im a get money and f--ck the rest of you, There is no consequence if I avoid getting caught by the police or it is not even a crime. Brand new criminal mentality in the makings in mass quantity .
We have a saying in the development community . If we can we will. It is more of a thing that we do what government allows us to do. So we get these people all on board with Agenda 21 smart growth and all that . The picture is spun of nice looking mixed use building in a idealistic view of what can be done . That is not reality for developers exploit the possibilities. Instead of a beautiful building chances are you will get some ugly stack and pack row housing with a sweat shop below. The point is that is human nature as we know it the reality of America. Take religion out and more people will think like developers given there stance on economics and production being the cure all of government woes , get a job and exploit consumerism . Now I do think there is a day way in the future were humanity learns the value of dependency on each other and values the environment we live in and hopefully that day is sooner than I personally think , but I don't think that day is today . I know I will do my part in trying to change public opinion , but it won't be by convincing them that God does not exist . I like that they have this barrier for now . To Me it slows down potential chaos and Havoc. As far as Me personally thinking there is a god or not ? Shit F--ck I think there is . I don't know how else to explain the serendipitous events of me personal life . I don't think it is God like people think of God in Religion at all . I think it is like a business plan written in language of all forms that people follow, created by humans for the human race to follow and we decide collectively what to keep and what to change by our collective actions based on the release of silos of information . We will ostracize people or make them hero's based on performance as we realize the meaning of the silos of information presented before us.
 
If the concept of God had never been conceived would our moral standards be recognized? Exactly when and how did the concept of God first become introduced?
I personally feel that religion is the founder of all evil. Wars are waged. Racial divides are made. And the belief that this world is to end by the hand of God regardless of what we do makes it seem like a big waste of time. If there is a God he most assuredly disapproves of our religious social structures that denounces science as the path to the truth.
 
The modern times shape of religion excepting the few is all for helping the society to become more civilized. And without it the possibilities are some might not find any logic of living a noble life to indulge in non civil things.
 
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