god = the universe

A

Asguard

Kiss my dark side
Valued Senior Member
i was wondering if there is are any LOGICAL holes in saying that god is the consiouness of the universe, the same way we are the consiouness of the colection of cells that make up US

in this i say that the universe was self created
 
Originally posted by Asguard
i was wondering if there is are any LOGICAL holes in saying that god is the consiouness of the universe, ...
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There are no "LOGICAL holes" or, for that matter, "logical holes" in saying that Purple Unicorns have horns. If the absence of logical contradiction were sufficient warrant for belief, you would end up believing all sorts of silliness.
 
An interesting view. I see no fallacies inherent in it. However, I am only human, and unlike purple unicorns, I do make mistakes.
 
Originally posted by Asguard
i was wondering if there is are any LOGICAL holes in saying that god is the consiouness of the universe, the same way we are the consiouness of the colection of cells that make up US

in this i say that the universe was self created
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The only problem that I've ever had with this is; what makes the assertion of God necessary?
That is, what differentiates the Universe without God from the Universe as God?

~Raithere
 
The only problem that I've ever had with this is; what makes the assertion of God necessary?
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Because a universe without God cannot have will. It cannot have consciousness and so merely exists as a state of being.

A universe as God has will and thus the laws of religion become the laws of nature that have, as of yet, been unproven by physical science.
 
Originally posted by Kython13
Because a universe without God cannot have will. It cannot have consciousness and so merely exists as a state of being.
Where is the problem with this? The universe does not appear to have a will. It just exists.

A universe as God has will and thus the laws of religion become the laws of nature that have, as of yet, been unproven by physical science.
You are assuming that the laws of religion are the same as God's will. God may have never interacted with us at all, other then setting up the rules that allowed for our creation.
 
Originally posted by Asguard
i was wondering if there is are any LOGICAL holes in saying that god is the consiouness of the universe, the same way we are the consiouness of the colection of cells that make up US

in this i say that the universe was self created
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Some do not believe that consciousness is the sum of chemical reactions. There is little evidence to support the notion. To add. I am yet to see a definition of what God is within this context. Meaning - before we can say the universe = God as 1+1=2 [simply]. We have to define God. What is God to you?
 
Re: Re: god = the universe

Originally posted by MarcAC
Some do not believe that consciousness is the sum of chemical reactions. There is little evidence to support the notion.
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It should be noted that there is little evidence to support the other side as well
 
The beautiful, complex and yet orderly physical universe that we live in would have come from something "dumb"
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Quote from this thread:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17858&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

I found this quote interesting as it is applied to this thread. If the universe is God, then as God/the universe created more of the universe, it G/U (God/Universe) logically grew. As G/U grows so to would G/U's "brainpower"(for lack of a better term) grow larger (assumption that larger/more advanced structure would lead to larger "brainpower"). This could expalin why through creationism theory, which would be inherently true in the G/U theory progressed to more and more complex stages. Starting with simple matter (heavens[hydrogen/stars]) to more complex matter (earth[other elements]) then to compounds (water) then to simple living beings (plants) then to simple minds (animals) to more complex minds (man). Just an idea to chew on.

And yes, I naturally apply it to christian thought because I am Christian (as if you couldn't tell from other posts)
 
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
So what?
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So,raithere asked what the difference is. There is a difference. Will versus no will. Laws of nature versus laws of religion.
 
god = the universe?

Originally posted by Persol
It should be noted that there is little evidence to support the other side as well
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There is little scientific evidence. One problem I have with today's society is that it assumes scientific evidence as the only credible evidence. It assumes science is the only credible way of asserting what reality is. And I see no reason or proof or evidence to warrant that conclusion.
 
Originally posted by Kython13
There is a difference. Will versus no will. Laws of nature versus laws of religion.
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Thanks, but what set of attributes and/or protocols allows you to distinguish between the "laws of nature" and the "laws of religion", and to which "religion" are you refering? What, for example, are the "laws of religion" with regards to planetary motion?
 
Re: god = the universe?

Originally posted by MarcAC
There is little scientific evidence. One problem I have with today's society is that it assumes scientific evidence as the only credible evidence. It assumes science is the only credible way of asserting what reality is. And I see no reason or proof or evidence to warrant that conclusion.
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You need only supply a viable alternative for testing.
 
Re: god = the universe?

Originally posted by MarcAC
There is little scientific evidence. One problem I have with today's society is that it assumes scientific evidence as the only credible evidence. It assumes science is the only credible way of asserting what reality is. And I see no reason or proof or evidence to warrant that conclusion.
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those who believe in God, not in the idea of "consciousness is the sum of chemical reactions" , can also repeat the same.. :eek:
 
Originally posted by Kython13
Because a universe without God cannot have will. It cannot have consciousness and so merely exists as a state of being.
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This is dependant upon what consciousness is. If there is no God, then consciousness evolved through natural processes. As there is no evidence to the contrary, I still do not see the necessity. You seem to be building upon the presumption that consciousness is categorically different from 'nature'.

A universe as God has will and thus the laws of religion become the laws of nature that have, as of yet, been unproven by physical science.
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Can you please explain what it is you mean here?

If the universe is God, then as God/the universe created more of the universe, it G/U (God/Universe) logically grew. As G/U grows so to would G/U's "brainpower"(for lack of a better term) grow larger (assumption that larger/more advanced structure would lead to larger "brainpower"). This could expalin why through creationism theory, which would be inherently true in the G/U theory progressed to more and more complex stages. Starting with simple matter (heavens[hydrogen/stars]) to more complex matter (earth[other elements]) then to compounds (water) then to simple living beings (plants) then to simple minds (animals) to more complex minds (man).
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God evolves? :eek: :D

So,raithere asked what the difference is. There is a difference. Will versus no will. Laws of nature versus laws of religion.
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If God is the Universe the two are inseparable... the laws would be the manifestation of it's will. So is it simply that the concept of God as the Universe simply an inherently willful Universe? How would we perceive a manifestation of this? How would we be able to differentiate it from an unwilled Universe? What would this say about our perceived free will being as we are simply parts of this greater being?

~Raithere
 
Re: god = the universe?

Originally posted by MarcAC
Some do not believe that consciousness is the sum of chemical reactions. There is little evidence to support the notion.
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Actually, the evidence we have supports the theory that consciousness is the result of natural reactions within the physical brain. Now, indeed, we have not been able to conclude exactly how consciousness occurs, but this does not mean that it does not originate in the brain.

So upon what do you base your assertion that it is not? How do you explain that physical processes that affect the brain also affect consciousness if it originates supernaturally?

There is little scientific evidence. One problem I have with today's society is that it assumes scientific evidence as the only credible evidence. It assumes science is the only credible way of asserting what reality is. And I see no reason or proof or evidence to warrant that conclusion.
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What alternative do you propose?

~Raithere
 
Before we go into a tangent about God and consciouness, I would like to know what is consiousness? What characteristics make something consciouness?

The dictionary says, and I quote:

Conscious- Having an awareness of one's environment and one's own existence,sensations, and thoughts



AWARENESS
 
work with me

In order for something to be conscious, it has to be AWARE of their existence. If you say God is the Universe and the Universe has a consciouness, you're saying the universe is aware of its existence and all the processes it goes through. I disagree with that assertion because the universe appears to move on its own without some command. One characteristic of a living thing is that it is aware of its enviroment and the sensations that interact with. How can the Universe interact with itself???? So the Universe has no consciousness.
 
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