God, Jesus and justified inefficiency?

[Quantum Quack]

Just a question that haws bugged me for ages and no doubt it has been asked before ad nausium.

Why did God only choose one man [Jesus] to convey his message when he could just as easilly tell the whole world simultaneously.
It seems to me that if God really wanted to convey a message he would do it in a more efficient way.

So how can this inefficiency be justified?

Why just one man and found a fledgling religion when he could have just as easilly generated a global religion instead?

 

[water]

Why did God only choose one man [Jesus] to convey his message when he could just as easilly tell the whole world simultaneously.
It seems to me that if God really wanted to convey a message he would do it in a more efficient way.

So how can this inefficiency be justified?

Why just one man and found a fledgling religion when he could have just as easilly generated a global religion instead?

Two things:

1. The outlook "If the world isn't perfect, then why was it made? It would have been better it hadn't been made at all. Also, if the message isn't spread in the right way, then why spread it at all? Etc." -- this only reveals your perfectionism.


2. Why do you think that Jesus' message is inefficient or spread in an inefficient way?

 

[Jenyar]

Jesus wasn't just a prophet, remember. He did more than just convey a message.

But the gospel of salvation came a long way, by means of Israel. This wasn't a God chosen by people, but a people chosen by God, and so it wasn't a message found by enlightened mystics, but a message from God himself. Through his chosen people (and even among Israel there were priests, kings and prophets), God spread the message more efficently and purely - in effect He cultivated the message, until it came to fulfillment as one man: Jesus, the "son of David". David showed man's relationship with God; Jesus showed God's relationship with man.

Jesus simultaneously combined the many voices, testimonies and beliefs of a history of faith and religion, with the voice of God - his living Word - all into one message: forgiveness and reconciliation.

And you might have noticed: Christianity is a global religion.

 

[Jenyar]

Another thing: what people generally call "efficient" usually isn't very humane, relying on grand displays of power and effort. This is what we consider "great". But God deliberately didn't conform to our take on greatness. His chosen king didn't resemble an earthly king in any way, except in a mockery. Ironically, in man's mocking of God, He was pointing a satyrical finger back at us. In a way, Paul already answered your question 2000 years ago:

1 Corinthians 1:20-25
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.​

 

[Joeman]

Just a question that haws bugged me for ages and no doubt it has been asked before ad nausium.

Why did God only choose one man [Jesus] to convey his message when he could just as easilly tell the whole world simultaneously.
It seems to me that if God really wanted to convey a message he would do it in a more efficient way.

So how can this inefficiency be justified?

Why just one man and found a fledgling religion when he could have just as easilly generated a global religion instead?

My question is why did Jesus choose Paul to convey his messages that are completely new after he spent 3 years with 12 apostles. That's not only inefficient but contradict himself when he said IT IS finished. In that case, his works wasn't finished but he had to borrow Paul as his mouthpiece. Without Paul, we don't know anything about the original sin or the fact that women aren't supposed to speak inside the churches. Also his WORDS wasn't finished until the council of trent in 14th century when the Catholics closed the Canon.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Quantum Quack: Just a question that haws bugged me for ages and no doubt it has been asked before ad nausium.

Why did God only choose one man [Jesus] to convey his message when he could just as easilly tell the whole world simultaneously.
*************
M*W: Good question, QQ. It would seem to me that Jesus was unnecessary. Had God wanted us to have his message, it seems we would recognize the message in our minds, maybe simultaneously. God seems to live in people's minds. Therefore, this is where the message would vent itself. There was no need for Jesus, but remember, it is only a myth.
*************
QQ: It seems to me that if God really wanted to convey a message he would do it in a more efficient way. So how can this inefficiency be justified?

Why just one man and found a fledgling religion when he could have just as easilly generated a global religion instead?
*************
M*W: I think you understand the 'lack of efficiency.' After all, God was supposed to be omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. This would indicate said God was lacking. This says to me there is no god.

Jesus didn't found Christianity, he was a Jew. Paul founded Christianity. Jesus never knew Paul. Paul was the mythmaker.

Recommended reading:

The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity, by Hyam Maccoby.

http://www.qumran.com/Paul/gospelmyth1.html

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Joeman: My question is why did Jesus choose Paul to convey his messages that are completely new after he spent 3 years with 12 apostles.
*************
M*W: Jesus didn't choose Paul -- he never knew Paul. Paul was a lunatic, liar, murderer and thief. The 12 apostles weren't real people. The number 12 that is repeated around the bible indicates the 12 signs of the zodiac. The 3 years Jesus allegedly spent with his apostles indicates one quarter of one year, or a quadrant. With four quadrants dividing the zodiac, that would show them being divided by a cross going N-S and E-W. This would become the myth of Jesus' crucifixion. After all, Jesus was not only the sun of god, he was the sun in four stages or seasons of the year.
*************
Joeman: That's not only inefficient but contradict himself when he said IT IS finished.
*************
M*W: The myth goes that when Jesus allegedly said "it is finished," the story either meant that the season was finished or the Age of Pisces was finished. Each age is about 26,000 years to complete. Each sign of the zodiac takes 26,000 years to complete. Technically, we are still living in the Age of Pisces. I believe the Age of Aquarias will come about 2150 CE or in about 145 years. I firmly believe Christianity will be history at that time.
*************
Joeman: In that case, his works wasn't finished but he had to borrow Paul as his mouthpiece. Without Paul, we don't know anything about the original sin or the fact that women aren't supposed to speak inside the churches. Also his WORDS wasn't finished until the council of trent in 14th century when the Catholics closed the Canon.
*************
M*W: Jesus didn't borrow Paul as his mouthpiece. Paul was epileptic and delusional. Epileptics often have visions of bright lights when they seize. This is what happened to Paul when he fell off his horse. He had an epileptic seizure.

True, Paul's words were all the early church fathers had to go on. What Paul wrote was false, and what they created their church from was also false. The Romans could not continue financially to control their masses with its armies, so the Romans created the next best thing -- religion to control its people. Paul was a Roman citizen after all. But then there is also doubt about the existence of Paul. Other names he may have been known by were Apollonius of Tyana and Apollo.

 

[Yorda]

M*W: The 12 apostles weren't real people.
*************
Yorda: They REPRESENT the 12 signs of the "Zodiak" (also called the "12" faces of God, or if we divide them into 2, they can be called "Yin and Yang", or if we divide them into 4, they can be called fire, air, water and earth) But what evidence do you have that they didn't exist as people ALSO?
*************
M*W: Each sign of the zodiac takes 26,000 years to complete.
*************
Yorda: You probably mean that each sign takes about 2160 years.
*************
M*W: After all, Jesus was not only the sun of god, he was the sun in four stages or seasons of the year.
*************
Yorda: Explain what you mean by "Sun of God". As far as I know, it is the same as "God's sun" and it makes no sense.
*************
M*W: The myth goes that when Jesus allegedly said "it is finished," the story either meant that the season was finished or the Age of Pisces was finished.
*************
Yorda: It could also mean that "everything" was finished. It's quite clear that humans still have to go through this wheel (Zodiak) for countless times.
*************
M*W: Technically, we are still living in the Age of Pisces.
*************
Yorda: No. The new world month doesn't come just like that. I don't know the "fucking" word. But it's like with colors... you can divide them into 3 main colors, red, green, blue... there are different shades of all colors... and there are also "more colors" between these 3... like orange and lila... you could divide them into 12 if you wanted, or 360... but we know that there are infinite colors. This is the way with the Zodiak also.

We are BETWEEN the age of Aquarius and Pisces. We are in both of them. That's why we fight like this. People try to hold on to the old ideas, but the new ideas will come. We have already invented many machines which use waves, which means that we are entering into the age of Aquarius. This transcendental entity pours waving water on the ground, which symbolizes that everything is made of waves.
*************
M*W: Jesus didn't borrow Paul as his mouthpiece. Paul was epileptic and delusional. Epileptics often have visions of bright lights when they seize. This is what happened to Paul when he fell off his horse. He had an epileptic seizure.
*************
Yorda: You can't just look at the effects. Geniuses can also seem like wackos, and wackos can seem like geniuses. Besides, Paul lived so long ago that you can't know much about him, and if you know something, you can't be sure it's true... and even if he would have been epileptic, it still doesn't MATTER.

 

[superluminal]

Well, since Jesus was just a man with a political agenda and most likely a 'god' complex, that renders it all moot, dosen't it?

Of course Jesus could never have been an extremely powerful personality with a mental problem (inflated ego or 'god' complex), and political goals who happened to be born at a ripe time for just such a thing. Nope. Absurd. No way.

 

[scorpius]

And you might have noticed: Christianity is a global religion.

could you post some link with statistics proving this,
until then you'll remain a LIAR.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

M*W said: "The 12 apostles weren't real people."
*************
Yorda: They REPRESENT the 12 signs of the "Zodiak" (also called the "12" faces of God, or if we divide them into 2, they can be called "Yin and Yang", or if we divide them into 4, they can be called fire, air, water and earth) But what evidence do you have that they didn't exist as people ALSO?
*************
M*W: The first part of your answer I will agree with, but what evidence do you have that Jesus existed?

Regarding the apostles, Jesus (the Sun God/Sun of God) surrounds himself with the 12 apostles. This is not to be considered as historical but mythological. The apostles performed their orderly movements around the sun (Jesus) for many millenia before becoming anthropomorphized and historicized in the Old and New Testaments. According to G.A. Wells who wrote the following texts:

Wells, GA, Did Jesus Exist?, Pemberton, 1986.
Wells, GA, Who Was Jesus?, Open Court, 1991.

Wells states, "The twelve disciples are often regarded as guarantors of Jesus' historicity, although we are told nothing of most of them except their names, on which the documents do not even agree completely. In Mk. and Mt. the list of names is also very clumsily worked into the text. All this makes it obvious that the number is an older tradition than the persons; that the idea of the twelve derives not from twelve actual disciples, but from other sources."

Hayyim ben Yehoshua, author of The Myth of the Historical Jesus, found at http://inlink.com/~rife/jesus

ben Yehoshua states: "The first time that twelve apostles are mentioned is in the document known as the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles [Didache]. This document apparently originated as a sectarian Jewish document written in the first century CE, but it was adopted by Christians who altered it substantially and added Christian ideas to it. In the earliest versions it is clear that the "twelve apostles" are the twelve sons of Jacob representing the twelve tribes of Israel. The Christians later considered the "twelve apostles" to be allegorical disciples of Jesus."

Think of this: there are 12 patriarchs, 12 tribes of Israel, and 12 apostles all represented by the 12 astrological signs. Then there are the 12 houses through which the sun passes through during the 12 hours of the day and the 12 hours of the night. So Jesus' (the sun) 12 "apostles" (12 signs of the zodiac) are symbolic not literal and historical figures who were part of Jesus' earthly ministry.

Godfrey Higgins, Esq., author of Anacalypsis, A&B Books, 1992, writes: " The number of the twelve apostles, which formed the retinue of Jesus during his mission, is that of the signs, and of the secondary genii, the tutelary gods of the Zodiacal signs which the sun passes through in his annual revolution. It is that of the twelve gods of the Romans, each of whom presided over a month. The Greeks, the Egyptians, the Persians, each had their twelve gods, as the Christian followers of Mithra had their twelve apostles. The chief of the twelve Genii of the annual revolution had the barque and the keys of time, the same as the chief of the secondary gods of the Romans or Janus, after whom St. Peter, Bar-Jona, with his barque and keys, is modelled."

The mythology of the apostles is well-documented. The following authors are recommended:

Anderson, Karl, Astrology of the Old Testament, Health Research, 1970.

Bernard, Raymond, PhD, Apollonius the Nazarene, Health Research, 1956.

Bowerstock, GW, Fiction as History: Nero to Julian, University of California, 1994.

Carpenter, Edward, Pagan and Christian Creeeds, Health Research, 1975.

Churchward, Albert, The Origin and Evolution of Religion

Doane, TW, Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions, Health Research, 1985.

Doherty, Erl, The Jesus Puzzle: Was There No Historical Jesus? http://www.magi.com/~oblio/jesus.html

Dujardin, Edouard, Ancient History of the God Jesus, Watts & Co., 1938.

Fideler, David, Jesus Christ, Sun of God: Ancient Cosmology and Early Christian Symbolism, Quest Books, 1993.

Graves, Kersey, The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors, University Books, 1971.

Hazelrigg, John, The Sun Book, Health Research, 1971.

Holley, Vernall, Christianity: The Last Great Creation fo the Pagan World, 1994.

Kuhn, Alvin Boyd, PhD, The Great Myth of the Sun-Gods, http://magna.com.au/~prfbrown/ab_kuhn.html

Mangasarian, MM, The Trith About Jesus, http://www.infidels.org

Massey, Gerald, The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, Health Research.

Mead, GRS, Did Jesus Live 100 BC?, Health Research, 1965.

O'Hara, Gwydion, Sun Lore, Llewellyn, 1997.

Walker, Barbara, The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, Harper, 1983.

Wheless, Joseph, Forgery in Christianity, Health Research, 1990.

M*W said: "Each sign of the zodiac takes 26,000 years to complete."
*************
Yorda: You probably mean that each sign takes about 2160 years.
*************
M*W: You're correct. It takes about 2,160 years to complete the transition in one zodiacal sign. It takes about 72 years to move one degree through the sign. Every 2,160 years is an "age." It would take about 26,000 years to transit the 12 signs of the zodiac. It's been said that Moses ushered in the sign of Aries, the Ram, and Jesus ushered in the sign of Pisces, the Fish.

After all, Jesus was not only the sun of god, he was the sun in four stages or seasons of the year.
*************
Yorda: Explain what you mean by "Sun of God". As far as I know, it is the same as "God's sun" and it makes no sense.
*************
M*W: I agree that it's confusing. Before the advent of Jesus, the Sun was Sol the day god. When the myth of Jesus was developed, he mistakenly became known as the 'son-of-god', but he was also believed to be god at the same time. Christians still believe this myth. The god of the night became Satan, probably named for Saturn.

The myth goes that when Jesus allegedly said "it is finished," the story either meant that the season was finished or the Age of Pisces was finished. The words written as Jesus' own words went something like, "eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani," which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" "Eloi" is the sun. Jesus is crying out to the sun asking the sun why it is going down! The sun forsakes us each day. This was a reference to the coming nightfall.
*************
Yorda: It could also mean that "everything" was finished. It's quite clear that humans still have to go through this wheel (Zodiak) for countless times.
*************
M*W: Technically, we are still living in the Age of Pisces.
*************
Yorda: No. The new world month doesn't come just like that. I don't know the "fucking" word. But it's like with colors... you can divide them into 3 main colors, red, green, blue... there are different shades of all colors... and there are also "more colors" between these 3... like orange and lila... you could divide them into 12 if you wanted, or 360... but we know that there are infinite colors. This is the way with the Zodiak also.
*************
M*W: Because of the movement of the equinoxes, the sun moves backward one degree every 72 years. Every 2,160 years we move into a new sign. We are entering the Age of Aquarius, and I will agree with you that we are in the transition between Pisces and Aquarius, and I will also agree that this could be the reason for current planetary unrest. We've probably been feeling the effects for a few hundred years. Just look at the turmoil of the 20th century!
*************
Yorda: We are BETWEEN the age of Aquarius and Pisces. We are in both of them. That's why we fight like this. People try to hold on to the old ideas, but the new ideas will come. We have already invented many machines which use waves, which means that we are entering into the age of Aquarius. This transcendental entity pours waving water on the ground, which symbolizes that everything is made of waves.
*************
M*W: Jesus didn't borrow Paul as his mouthpiece. Paul was epileptic and delusional. Epileptics often have visions of bright lights when they seize. This is what happened to Paul when he fell off his horse. He had an epileptic seizure.
*************
Yorda: You can't just look at the effects. Geniuses can also seem like wackos, and wackos can seem like geniuses. Besides, Paul lived so long ago that you can't know much about him, and if you know something, you can't be sure it's true... and even if he would have been epileptic, it still doesn't MATTER.
*************
M*W: Everything is made of water. I agree that geniuses can seem like wackos. It happens all the time. But, from the research I've done, I now believe that Paul didn't exist either. He was just a metaphor for the mythological advent of the Age of Pisces.

Yorda, I have not known you to curse like you've done in this post. What's wrong? Why don't you go outside and bask in the sun for awhile and calm down?

 

[scorpius]

Why did God only choose one man [Jesus] to convey his message when he could just as easilly tell the whole world simultaneously.

god didnt choose Jesus.
b/c god dont exist

Jesus thought he was god or his son/messenger.
wouldnt be the first or last time some megalomaniac had thoughts like that,

even here some loon while back used to post saying hes JC,god alien etc,

also IF there was god/creator who made all, wouldnt all people be its children?
why would this Jebus be any special,

the need for sacrifice for sins dont make any sense either,I mean why would god create sin in the first place and than need to kill himself to take the sins away,
gotta be brain dead aka brainwashed to swallow that idiocy,imo

 

[Yorda]

M*W: what evidence do you have that Jesus existed?

What kind of evidence do you want?
What IS "evidence"?
Do you think there's evidence for everything?

And if Jesus wouldn't have existed, what then?
It doesn't make the story false.

 

[SnakeLord]

Jesus, the "son of David".

gods name is David?