God, Heaven, and Hell

inuyaSHA0004

all shalt bow before me!
Registered Senior Member
does a god exist?

it may be so, i may have found a reason to our existence if there is a "God".

in the bible it states that there is a heaven, and ther is a hell, but as it would seem, the bible mentions nothing of the where abouts of these places. so how do we know they exist? how can we trust that they exist?

i believe that this place we call "home" this world/realm or whatever it may be on a much greater scale, is the Hell mentioned in the bible, the reason i think this is because, the heaven mentioned in the bible is a perfect place. a place completely without evil.

how much would we appreciate heaven if we didnt know the pain of hell? thats why we are here, to know what suffering is, so we can truely7 appreciate heaven.
 
inuyaSHA0004 said:
how much would we appreciate heaven if we didnt know the pain of hell? thats why we are here, to know what suffering is, so we can truely7 appreciate heaven.
I dont think you need to know bad to apreciate the good.
and I can prove it to you
if you lived in a place where you are completely happy,where nothing bad ever happens,like some of us do,WHY would we need to experience evil or bad things to happen ,for us to apreciate our good lives more?

we dont and therefore evil is not necesary,
your argument for hells necesity fails totaly!
 
If the men who wrote the Bible didn't even know Earth was round, then the odds are not good that they got the existence of God, Heaven and Hell right either.
 
inuyaSHA0004 said:
i believe that this place we call "home" this world/realm or whatever it may be on a much greater scale, is the Hell mentioned in the bible, the reason i think this is because, the heaven mentioned in the bible is a perfect place. a place completely without evil.

how much would we appreciate heaven if we didnt know the pain of hell? thats why we are here, to know what suffering is, so we can truely7 appreciate heaven.
I think hell (suffering) is both undesirable and unnecessary. But the possibility of hell is necessary, so that we can experience the joy of choosing love/good. You don't need to really experience/actualize evil in order to appreciate good. You don't need to experience a car crash in order to appreciate the joy of driving a car.

That being said, I agree that life on this planet is a form of hell, due to the amount of suffering we can see almost everywhere. But how and why did we get here? Here's a theory:

There seem to be two fundamental ways of perception of reality: analysis and intuition. Analysis is a step-by-step process which is focused on details. Intuition is not a process; it is instantaneous awareness of the whole picture, but without awareness of details. Analysis explores the "trees", intuition grasps the "forest". This idea about two fundamental ways of perception is not ad hoc; it has been found that our brain hemispheres have specialized functions - the left hemisphere focuses on details and step-by-step analysis while the right hemisphere sees a global picture, intuitively (instantaneously). Or so the research suggests.

Now, let's say that God is all that exists. God too perceives reality (= himself) both intuitively and analytically. Intuitively, he grasps the whole reality but he doesn't see the details; he only sees an infinite undifferentiated mass. This is the timeless, "omniscient" perspective of God. And so he sticks analytical "sensors", or points of reference, into this mass and starts differentiating in the step-by-step process of analysis. This is creation: a portion of undifferentiated reality is tapped into (=intuition) and differentiated into patterns (=analysis). The beginning of creation is the beginning of time; each step in creation is a moment of time. And we too are God's analytical "sensors".

In the beginning we used our free will to switch between the analytical (non-omniscient) and the holistic (intuitively omniscient) perspective, which resulted in harmonious, optimal creation - our analysis was guided by all-encompassing intuition; intuition enabled us to create details in harmony with everything, although we were not aware of all details that existed. But at some point we misused our free will and neglected the intuitive perspective: we were so fascinated by the analytical awareness of our details (overwhelmed by the pleasures derived from them) that we started paying less attention to the intuitive awareness of the Whole; and so we started creating disharmoniously, non-optimally. As we pursued analytical pleasures, our awareness of analytical pleasures grew while our awareness of the larger world faded, which motivated us even more to pursue these pleasures and further limit our awareness. I don't mean to say that these pleasures are wrong (quite the opposite), but it was our preoccupation with these pleasures - that we stopped checking the wider context - that was wrong. We were rushing recklessly down the road of life - and crashed, ending up with addictions and obsessions built in our minds and bodies and severely limited awareness. This was the spiritual fall or the revolt of the angels.

And we got stuck on this planet.
 
If we put modern cosmology into the subject, there is a theory of cosmic boundaries, which is consisting of branes. Beyond these boundaries, there is thought to be different cosmic dimensions, which religiously can be reffered to as realms. If we then opened for the existence of realms, Heaven and Hell would be pretty obvious. And something would then have to sentence us to either one, or to go with the flow or wheel of physical time, to live again in this physical world, in materialism as we know it. Just a thought. :m:
 
illuminatingtherapy said:
If we put modern cosmology into the subject, there is a theory of cosmic boundaries, which is consisting of branes. Beyond these boundaries, there is thought to be different cosmic dimensions, which religiously can be reffered to as realms.
And here's a nice clip about the brane-world and extra dimensions theory:

http://www.pbs.org//wgbh/nova/elegant/media2/3014_r_04.html

Actually, it's part of the string theory (or M-theory, as it has been called more recently), which is the leading theory in contemporary fundamental physics.
 
If the men who wrote the Bible didn't even know Earth was round, then the odds are not good that they got the existence of God, Heaven and Hell right either.

So that discounts any knowledge former scientists had before man knew quarks existed. They didn't even know that, so chances are, scientists like Darwin are wrong on other theories :rolleyes: .
 
inuyaSHA0004 said:
does a god exist?

Nope

inuyaSHA0004 said:
in the bible it states that there is a heaven, and ther is a hell, but as it would seem, the bible mentions nothing of the where abouts of these places. so how do we know they exist?

You don't.

inuyaSHA0004 said:
how can we trust that they exist?

By maintaining unconditional trust (i.e. Faith)

inuyaSHA0004 said:
how much would we appreciate heaven if we didnt know the pain of hell?

Neither place seems to exist; therefore, the question doesn't really matter.
 
usp8riot said:
So that discounts any knowledge former scientists had before man knew quarks existed. They didn't even know that, so chances are, scientists like Darwin are wrong on other theories :rolleyes: .

Yes I see how you can make a comparison with quarks and evolution to that of man not knowing the Earth is round at a time when they guess places exist called heaven and hell.......... :confused:

I can't think of any bible prophecy that was later proven correct that can be verified up till now. Anything? Anything that can be contradicted or supported today from the Bible using evidence turns out to be false.
 
inuyaSHA0004 said:
does a god exist?

it may be so, i may have found a reason to our existence if there is a "God".

in the bible it states that there is a heaven, and ther is a hell, but as it would seem, the bible mentions nothing of the where abouts of these places. so how do we know they exist? how can we trust that they exist?

i believe that this place we call "home" this world/realm or whatever it may be on a much greater scale, is the Hell mentioned in the bible, the reason i think this is because, the heaven mentioned in the bible is a perfect place. a place completely without evil.

how much would we appreciate heaven if we didnt know the pain of hell? thats why we are here, to know what suffering is, so we can truely7 appreciate heaven.



This universe is infinite. I am unable to show the existence of these super worlds to you. I accept my incapability. But you are also incapable to prove directly the non-existence of these super worlds. Have you taken all over the universe and said, " Here ends the universe. Beyond this point there is no universe. This is the compound wall of the space. Your super world does not exist anywhere’’. Therefore, there is equal chance for the existence and non-existence of the super worlds according to the theory of probability.

Now let us analyse of our cases. Both of us are eating to live. The basic needs are satisfied in the cases of both of us. You have spent extra time also in earning more money, which may give you some problems of health like sugar, B.P etc., due to over enjoying. I have not earned more money and I am healthy due to normal food. None of us will carry the money with us after death. The money given to the children may also be lost in several ways. Therefore, I do not find much difference between us, once the basic needs are satisfied. I am poor because I have spent my extra time in the service of God.

Suppose after my death, you are correct and there are no super worlds. In such case what I have lost? There is no loss for me. But after your death, suppose I am correct and there are super worlds. You have lost every thing and God will not save you. Thus, even on accepting your argument, based on the equal probability, it is better to serve the Lord by sacrificing the extra time and energy for the Lord after earning the basic needs. You must read the theory of probability, which is perfectly a scientific theory.

At Thy Lotus Feet His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org
 
But after your death, suppose I am correct and there are super worlds. You have lost every thing and God will not save you.

You see you are asking someone to believe not only in the existence of heaven or hell, but to believe you know the aspects of it and it's motives. You somehow know what gets people there and what doesn't. Is it all really as simple as believing?

I choose not to believe and if that means death is the end, and no chance of heaven, that is cool. I don't want to live forever even if it is in bliss.

If however, I somehow get punished after death for not believing, then that is not a God I could bring myself to worship as that is utterly disgusting. In other words, God can go fuck himself.

Thus, even on accepting your argument, based on the equal probability, it is better to serve the Lord by sacrificing the extra time and energy for the Lord after earning the basic needs. You must read the theory of probability, which is perfectly a scientific theory.

It is not equal probability at all. It is 99.infinate-9999% likely that no heaven exists. When we die, our conciousness will dissipate. It will never be reconstructed anywhere so as to be recognizable as you.

It's not just a case that it's a 50/50 wether heaven exists or not, you must also take into account wether that God is the God you worship as part of yoru organised religion which attempts to describe the motives of it's man-made God.

It's also a case that even if there is a God, that doesn't mean there is an afterlife. People somehow think that even if there is a God, then that MUST mean there is an afterlife. Or that if there is a God, then he MUST care about what we do in life. But since it is likely that there is no God, even more likely that there is no afterlife and more unlikely still there is no 'Heaven'.... 50/50? Don't make me laugh.
 
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