Global Warming Science, or Pure Advocacy? Hadley Climate Research Unit Hacked

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A scientific fact? really? no it is a scam, and always has been.

Nonsense.

How how much Co2 is there in the atmosphere?

From memory, it's currently around 300 parts per million.

And exactly how much of it is man made?

From memory, about one third.

When sun spot activity is high the temperatures on earth rise, and when as now the sun spot activity is none existent the temperatures fall, climate change is a on going cycle, and until we can control the sun and it's cycles, and the Milankovitch Cycles, we have no possibility of effecting the earth's climate.

I already corrected this misconception in a previous post.

The hottest year on record was 2005, as sunspots were decreasing. Milankovich cycles cannot explain the current warming trend.

The present level of CO2 is extremely low by historical standards.

It is the highest it has ever been in the current geological era. Prior eras ended with over 95% of all species becoming extinct, and it looks like we're headed the same way with climate change.

If CO2 is significantly reduced, that slower plant growth which will affect the world food supplies while having no effect on global warming.

You have to be aware that we're talking about climate here. Global temperatures affect the ranges of various types of plants. They do not, on the whole, affect the total plant growth - with the exception of ice ages and the like.

The life of all plants and animals on Earth is dependent on CO2 for food and oxygen.

And so?

Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. It is stuff that makes life possible on our planet.

And this is relevant... why?
 
It would be pretty hard to believe that there's no fallout from massive fossil fuel usage. It's like a collection of tens of thousands of small volcanoes: not so much heat at any one time, but small-moderate ongoing contributions of heat from multiple sources constantly.
 
And how does that apply to the religion of global warming?

Again, You are thinking on a scale that is way to small, again, if you spit in the ocean what effect would you have?

Its amazing how you Republicans would rape the world for another few bucks in your pockets. I am disgusted with you guys.
 
Rotten to the core.
Copenhagen climate summit in disarray after 'Danish text' leak

Developing countries react furiously to leaked draft agreement that would hand more power to rich nations, sideline the UN's negotiating role and abandon the Kyoto protocol

The document is also being interpreted by developing countries as setting unequal limits on per capita carbon emissions for developed and developing countries in 2050; meaning that people in rich countries would be permitted to emit nearly twice as much under the proposals.
 
Also, if these guys can hack into a scientific computer which is hard enough, why not just forge the e-mails, hell with all the hub bub you guys have been yelling you may not be hearing the fact that the e-mails never existed.

Because trying to falsify data like that is ridiculously hard. First off because practically every major country has taken their own measurements from the atmosphere or from the polar permafrost, and I doubt that they could all coordinate well enough to haev the same amount of data.

And the data even supports the amount of icebergs that are collapsing.

The fact is if these reporters even tried to think about something other than their wallets, theyd see that the evidence is a perfect match with the data.
 
The raw data is, on the whole, publically available to anybody who wishes to analyse it.

Why don't climate deniers ever present their own analyses and show the flaws in the conclusions of 95%+ of climate scientists?

Why are climate deniers almost invariably not qualified in climate science?
 
No ones asking to do that, simply to bring it back to pre-industrial levels.

How do you do that without eliminating industry?

And if this does not make for scary reading, then I do not know what does...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/s...l=1&adxnnlx=1260335633-qdZ9/0SoiDao8Hk6uXMGxQ

Trillions of dollars of costs, paid for by jobs in industries that do not yet exist. Meanwhile, we transfer vast sums of wealth to the world's poorest, least efficient economies. Sounds wonderful.
 
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How do you do that without eliminating industry?

Easy, reduce CO2 emissions with non-fossil fuel powered industry, introduce carbon sinks for example in single use bio-materials (Bio-materials that go to landfill when used.)

And if this does not make for scary reading, then I do not know what does...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/s...l=1&adxnnlx=1260335633-qdZ9/0SoiDao8Hk6uXMGxQ

Trillions of dollars of costs, paid for by jobs in industries that do not yet exist. Meanwhile, we transfer vast sums of wealth to the world's poorest, least efficient economies. Sounds wonderful.

The cost of transferring to an alternative energy economy is going to have to be made one way or another, once oil prices hit $200 there will be little choice, now should that money be directed toward poor nations, I would think once oil prices go crazy it will be every nation for its self, fuck the poor nations.
 
Also, if these guys can hack into a scientific computer which is hard enough, why not just forge the e-mails, hell with all the hub bub you guys have been yelling you may not be hearing the fact that the e-mails never existed.

Because trying to falsify data like that is ridiculously hard. First off because practically every major country has taken their own measurements from the atmosphere or from the polar permafrost, and I doubt that they could all coordinate well enough to haev the same amount of data.

And the data even supports the amount of icebergs that are collapsing.

The fact is if these reporters even tried to think about something other than their wallets, theyd see that the evidence is a perfect match with the data.

All scientists agree that a lot of the total data available is junk (Except for instrument calibration purposes). Scientists disagree on exactly how much of it is junk. So far, the Hadley Institute has yet to release its station data - along with numerous countries which classify it as "Sensitive Intelligence". Maybe they're scared of weather modification projects...I don't know...the NOAA pretty much gives everything out and it's had no effect on US National Security.
 
Easy, reduce CO2 emissions with non-fossil fuel powered industry, introduce carbon sinks for example in single use bio-materials (Bio-materials that go to landfill when used.)

It's not easy. You have to redo the entire world's power grid. And what do you propose to replace the internal combustion engine that powers cars?
 
The World meteorological office has just released a graph showing that the world was actually getting hotter this decade.

Copenhagen-Diary--UN-Clim-001.jpg

It took us nine years to fudge the figures effectively, but here it is

The scenario goes like this

CO2 Theory deniers 2001: Ha ha, it's no hotter this year

Met Office: Yeah but that's just one year.

CO2 Theory deniers 2002: Another year, even colder.

Met Office: Two years is just a blip, you watch

CO2 Theory deniers 2003: Brrr. we're Cold

Met Office: Very funny, but it's the El Nino effect, affecting figures. The underlying trend is lower

and so on, until November 2009
Met Office: Hey, We've just found a graph which proves that the world was getting hotter all the time.


Is no-one else just a little suspicious about this?
 
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Hmm, lets put some excerpts from a thread I made here:

KLAUS:
"Nevertheless, there is another threat on the horizon. I see this threat in environmentalism which is becoming a new dominant ideology, if not a religion. Its main weapon is raising the alarm and predicting the human life endangering climate change based on man-made global warming."

"Global warming has recently become both a symbol and a prototype of the tension between the truth and propaganda. One politically correct truth has taken over and it is not easy to oppose it although a significant number of people, including top scientists, see the climate change issues, its reasons, and its impact very differently. They are scared by the arrogance of the advocates of the global warming hypothesis and the related conjecture that connects this warming with particular acts of Man. They are afraid of the consequences that it will have for all of us. The best environment for humans is the environment of freedom. It is the only right criterion to judge all environmentalist visions and all their categoric demands. The current debate about global warming is thus inherently a debate about the freedom."

"Klaus argues that the environmental movement has transformed itself into an ideology that seeks to restrict human activities at any cost, while pursuing an impossible utopian dream of a perfectly "natural" world. The supposed threat of human civilization against a fragile Earth has become an article of faith, especially in the realm of global warming activism. --- "The largest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy, and prosperity at the end of the 20th and at the beginning of the 21st century is no longer socialism," writes Klaus. "It is, instead, the ambitious, arrogant, unscrupulous ideology of environmentalism."

________

As much as I don't like him, he does have some points which I must admit are quite realistic. He makes interesting points in his book: "Blue Planet in Green Shackles -- What is endangered: Climate or Freedom?". Contrarily to him I actually do believe that humanity does have a huge impact on the climate and environment, but I can also honestly see where this "Safe the planet" is leading to. I brought up the "incandescent lightbulb ban" because it just shows how the EU is completely disregarding the opinions of its citizens, and makes crucial decisions on their behalf just to manage their agenda about meeting up with the CO2 emission targets proposed by the Commission -- with this taking away our freedom to use whatever f*cking bulb we want to; limiting our freedom even more.


http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=95884
 
It's not easy. You have to redo the entire world's power grid. And what do you propose to replace the internal combustion engine that powers cars?

It easy compare to not having any power or gasoline to power cars and a power grid to begin with.
 
You know what I find funny? Just recently I've seen a docu about scientists trying to find a way of how to make cows produce less methane. *EHEM* Are we going to blame the cows, and sheep now? How about humans stop using cars?

When I read shit like the following then I have to admit that I'm not sure whether I'm still stoned, or if this is reality.. http://timeforchange.org/are-cows-cause-of-global-warming-meat-methane-CO2
 
You know what I find funny? Just recently I've seen a docu about scientists trying to find a way of how to make cows produce less methane. *EHEM* Are we going to blame the cows, and sheep now? How about humans stop using cars?

Methane is the second most climate effecting green house gas at this time.
 
kremmen said:
The scenario goes like this

CO2 Theory deniers 2001: Ha ha, it's no hotter this year

Met Office: Yeah but that's just one year.

CO2 Theory deniers 2002: Another year, even colder.

Met Office: Two years is just a blip, you watch

CO2 Theory deniers 2003: Brrr. we're Cold

Met Office: Very funny, but it's the El Nino effect, affecting figures. The underlying trend is lower

and so on, until November 2009
Met Office: Hey, We've just found a graph which proves that the world was getting hotter all the time.


Is no-one else just a little suspicious about this?
Yeah. How do the dumbass objections from the politicized "deniers" crowd still get distribution and publicity from the major media? They've been handing out ludicrous garbage for thirty years now, been busted on it dozens of times, and they still have credibility? What's up with that?

How is it that this latest email hacking of dirty laundry and academic infighting is immediately presented in the media - right out of the box, prior to any analysis - as challenging (even possibly invalidating) the scientific findings of the climate researchers worldwide?
psycho said:
- "The largest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy, and prosperity at the end of the 20th and at the beginning of the 21st century is no longer socialism," writes Klaus. "It is, instead, the ambitious, arrogant, unscrupulous ideology of environmentalism."
He's overlooking fascism. It hasn't exactly gone away.

But the problem he identifies wrongly is real: the hijacking of all sources of motivation for political action by authoritarians, whose agenda is governmental control of the individual and governmental power for themselves. He seems to think there is something special about environmentalism, in that regard. There isn't.

The authoritarians with the upper hand in this old battle are the corporate elite, the fascists, at the moment - at least in the US. So we see Klaus complaining about the incandescent light bulb mandates, and rightly so - but they apply to individuals, in fact. Corporations went fluorescent long ago. The history of the past twenty years of environmentalists attempting to mandate corporate recycling efforts for fluorescent bulbs - to keep the mercury in them out of the public air and water, where it harms the lives of people - would present a different picture of the power of environmentalists.
 
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kremmen said:
At the moment, I don't trust either side to give factual information.
One "side" has been feeding you a steady diet of factual information, which has checked out if you have bothered to check.

The other "side" has been feeding you a series of deceptions and soon-debunked crapola, married to a political ideology and employed for partisan electoral leverage.

Take your pick.
 
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