Gay marriage: The backlash begins

Mystech

Adult Supervision Required
Registered Senior Member
Well some pretty stunning advancements were made for civil rights in 2003. We saw the death of sodomy laws, for instance, it's no longer criminal to be homosexual, and frankly homosexual civil rights have been being persuade with a sudden renewed fervor, it seems. Civil rights in America haven't been this hot a topic since the 60s.

With a few victories under it’s belt, and growing support, enough to put civil rights back on the list of issues worthy of the attentions of the president, and potential presidential candidates, it was really probably only a matter of time before those hive-mind right-wingers received orders from the queen, to whip them all into a frenzy, put their new rhetoric of “Defending marriage” into effect, and start squeezing down the vice, as it were.

Republican lawmakers in states with existing Defense of Marriage acts seek to go a step further, amending their constitutions to specify that marriage must be heterosexual. State Rep. Bill Graves, a bill sponsor in Oklahoma, wants to stipulate that same-sex unions are "repugnant to the public policy" of the state.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/23/gay.marriage.states.ap/index.html

It seems that the backlash has just begun, frightened republicans in legislatures all across the nation are trying to get more solid anti-homosexual laws put into place, even going so far as to attempt to amend state constitutions to ban homosexual marriage.

Proposed constitutional amendments that would ban gay marriage have been introduced in Arizona, Georgia, Virginia, Oklahoma, Kentucky and Michigan; one is expected soon in Alabama. An Idaho Republican, Rep. Henry Kulczyk, plans to introduce a similar measure there, to the dismay of some Democrats.

This wave of hatred is a bit alarming, though honestly not surprising, especially after I heard about the Massachusetts ruling to completely legalize “Nothing less” than homosexual marriage, I figured that this was coming, the unthinking glaze in any republicans eye as he talks about “defending marriage” should have been enough to predict it.

Georgia's proposed amendment -- which could go on the November general election ballot -- was presented Wednesday in the state Senate. Any change to traditional marriage "begins to tear at the foundations of our institutions," said Senate Republican Leader Bill Stephens.

Here’s the primary argument that the Republicans are running on. Without substantiating exactly how this works, they consistently assert that homosexual marriage would somehow infringe on heterosexual marriages. Do they think that once it’s legalized all married hets will suddenly have second thoughts, and decide to divorce in favor of marrying a same-sex partner just like they’d always wanted? Pretty unlikely. To sum up my thoughts on this argument, I’d have to quote my young, but very bright sister, “How the fuck does homosexual marriage effect mom and dad’s relationship?! That’s just stupid!”

Stupid though it may very well be, It’s what the wild reactionary religious right is basing their arguments on. Apparently it’s ok to deny civil liberties so long as you have any bullshit excuse at all to run on. This is good news for me, because secretly I’ve always felt that Puerto Ricans should not be allowed to vote, because bears hibernate in the winter. All you need to follow that logic is to be ok with the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy; simply because one follows another, doesn’t mean that one is the cause of the other. . . but it doesn’t mean that we can’t pretend it’s true.

Another clever tactic used by supporters of denying homosexual marriage is to completely obscure what the idea is. They talk about the sanctity of marriage, as if that truly means anything. Unless you worship our secular government as being some sort of holy body (and if you do, then you’re probably in Bush’s cabinet), then there should be no worry of sanctity or godliness. We’re talking ONLY about the state institution of marriage, which gives all sorts of legal benefits and considerations appropriate to the nature of the relationship two married people display. Under no circumstances would any religious body be required to perform services for a homosexual couple. In other words, if it’s the eyes of god that you’re genuinely worried about, here, then you shouldn’t be at all concerned with this issue. It’s about equal protection under the law, not some fuzzy religious idealism, so cool down, the catholic church won’t be performing wedding ceremonies for Adam and Steve any time soon under any circumstances, and you can go right on thinking that the big man up stairs shares your ape-like irrational hatred of homosexuals without the government even implying any different.
 
Proposed constitutional amendments that would ban gay marriage have been introduced in Arizona, Georgia, Virginia, Oklahoma, Kentucky and Michigan; one is expected soon in Alabama. An Idaho Republican, Rep. Henry Kulczyk, plans to introduce a similar measure there, to the dismay of some Democrats.

Good. I don't have a problem with homosexual marriage, but I do have a problem with them getting married in a church of God - keep it at the court house, Steve.
 
CounslerCoffee said:
Good. I don't have a problem with homosexual marriage, but I do have a problem with them getting married in a church of God - keep it at the court house, Steve.

Don't worry, Counsler, as long as the whole peacefull protest, civil marriage fight is going on no one will be pestering churches to try and convinse them to preform homosexual marriage ceremonies (though some already do). Once it's good and securely legal in the US, though, that's when the militant activism ramps up, it's all god-bots understand, there will be fire-bombings, and drive-bys on arch-bishops, it'll be great.

Ok, maybe not. . . I just want an excuse to blow stuff up, and frankly doing that in the course of arguing for the right for homosexuals to serve in the military is uhh. . . a little dangerous, they've got some really big guns, haha.
 
Just remember the old joke. If somebody is covering your back would you rather them be interested in your wife, or your 'back'?
 
Once it's good and securely legal in the US, though, that's when the militant activism ramps up, it's all god-bots understand, there will be fire-bombings, and drive-bys on arch-bishops, it'll be great.

Oh yippie. Instead of a churchy-God-loving minister blowing up an abortion clinic, I get the founding member of the ACLU shooting out the windows of a church. The world has truly gone mad.

Don't worry, Counsler, as long as the whole peacefull protest, civil marriage fight is going on no one will be pestering churches to try and convinse them to preform homosexual marriage ceremonies (though some already do).

Don't get me wrong, I don't go to church (I'm a professed atheist now), but I believe it, for some odd reason, to be wrong for a gay person to get married in a church. Something just tells me that it's wrong and an abomination. Could of been the way that I was raised.

I would be no member of a church that had gay weddings.
 
CounslerCoffee said:
Don't get me wrong, I don't go to church (I'm a professed atheist now), but I believe it, for some odd reason, to be wrong for a gay person to get married in a church. Something just tells me that it's wrong and an abomination. Could of been the way that I was raised.

I would be no member of a church that had gay weddings.

That's right, we're the abomination that the ancienctes warned us about!

Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohaiam: Ahhhh, Get out of my mind!

Sorry, I seem to be having a bit of a Dune flash-back.

Relay? You wouldn't wanna' be part of a church that allows homosexual marriages? I find that very strange, especially if you are avowedly atheist. . . well I suppose being a member of any church and saying you're atheist is just a bit odd, but not undoable. . . maybe you just stick around for the odd charitable work, or whatever, that's none of my business.

I'd hate to turn this into a meaningless theology thread, but I'm going to risk a further comment on this matter anyhow. Isn't the basic Idea of Christianity that we're all sinners? What's so different about to homosexuals who love one another getting married? Is it so different (in the eyes of god) from two thieves who love one another marrying, or two adulterers? I thought that it was the love that mattered more than anything else, and God and Jesus are supposed to be just brimming with approval for that.

Anyway I'm not big on making theological arguments, and I sure as heck don't intend to argue in favor of this or that church endorsing homosexual marriage, it's just that the shock some people show toward such an idea sort of knocks me for a loop and leaves me feeling like I've got to say something in the idea's defense.
 
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CounnslerCoffee said:
I don't have a problem with homosexual marriage, but I do have a problem with them getting married in a church of God - keep it at the court house, Steve.

CounslerCoffee said:
Don't get me wrong, I don't go to church (I'm a professed atheist now), but I believe it, for some odd reason, to be wrong for a gay person to get married in a church. Something just tells me that it's wrong and an abomination. Could of been the way that I was raised.

[QUOTE=CounslerCoffee]I would be no member of a church that had gay weddings.

Hmmm, interesting... again.

CounslerCoffee said:
Don't get me wrong, I don't go to church (I'm a professed atheist now)


Do your parents know you're this smart? :bugeye:

oh and umm, genius, if you really ARE atheist, you should be in a state of apathy when it comes to gay marriages in a church... that is, of course, unless you're not just looking for a reason to justify, scratch that, unless you're not just using hypocrisy to justify your homophobia/bigotry :bugeye:

gay marriage in canada 1

Gay marriages in Canada 2

hay marriages in Canada 3
 
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What's the big deal if they do get married in a church? I'd have thought that if you truly were an atheist, you shouldn't care less Coffee. After all, they're two people who are in love, who probably go to church and are active members. Why shouldn't they get married in a church? How can it be an abomination? You could only say such a thing if you thought being gay was an abomination. They've done nothing wrong, so why should it be an abomination?

What I do find to be an abomination are peadophile priests and members of church groups who go out and kill people who work in abortion clinics. I know that if I had to choose between a gay couple getting married in a church and a couple who go out and kill abortion staff getting married in a church, I'd rather see the gay couple get married. Who cares if they're gay? They're not hurting anybody. They just want to get married. How should they're getting married affect anyone else but the couple themselves?
 
Marriage is not owned by the church. The Christians have tried to make everyone believe that for centuries, but at its heart marriage is a legal/social agreement which was practiced by lots of different people... not just Christians...

So who cares what the Christians think about marriage? In many countries, a plumber can marry people as easily as a priest, they just have to fill out a couple of forms. The important part is how the law is written, not the opinion of a bunch of churchy types who want to think that they own marriage (a social institution).
 
So who cares what the Christians think about marriage?

Well thats just the problem isnt it? The people in charge care what the christians think. Essentialy they control the law, because the folks in charge do think the christians own marriage. Its thiers and apparently a couple who loves eachother are mere interlopers who seek to abuse the property of the owners of marriage, the religious right.
 
am i the only one who doesn't get the whole "defense of marriage" hoopla? i honestly just don't get it. what does that even mean? i know it's supposed to be an attack on homosexuals. but beyond that what the hell is defending marriage? what does it need defending from? is it going anywhere? are people not geing to be getting married anymore? was someone going to outlaw it (for those who currently can get married)? it doesn't make any sense!!
 
SwedishFish said:
am i the only one who doesn't get the whole "defense of marriage" hoopla? i honestly just don't get it. what does that even mean? i know it's supposed to be an attack on homosexuals. but beyond that what the hell is defending marriage? what does it need defending from? is it going anywhere? are people not geing to be getting married anymore? was someone going to outlaw it (for those who currently can get married)? it doesn't make any sense!!


although I can show you what they meant by all of that, leaving this as it is is funnier. It's hilarious. It's almost as if they're like this...


"oh no :( they're trying to steal marriage!! We must stop at nothing to keep it from them :eek: "


between divorce and gay marriages, christian pious zealots have made marriage into an entity.

bottom line: if you're married and not happy, divorce and end the melancholy, none of this, "but work things out" garbage if you don't want to, you're not a little kid no more, and you don't have a chance to 'grow up' and change things around, act now and do what's best for you (whether that be working thigns out or divorce, up to you to decide).

Second bottom line: gay people want to get married, great, in one ear, out the other. Seriously folks, why do some of you homo-phobs care enough about this, don't you have a life, with problems that need attending to, why waste time and thought on something like this, if you were really tryin to protect your religion's virtue, then you'd be in church more often, doing "God's will", and even then, you'd be just as stupid for doing so, if not more stupid. I've been saying this for well over a year; gay marriages? who cares! All people who think they shouldn't be married should be shot.

What kind of society would follow after the church and government would get away with such a folly. Censorship would be nigh. Can't deny basic rights like that. Want to get married? Go get married then. What's the problem?
 
Chalaco said:
What kind of society would follow after the church and government would get away with such a folly. Censorship would be nigh. Can't deny basic rights like that. Want to get married? Go get married then. What's the problem?
Unfortunately, it is today's society which follows the Church and Government. And such a society will continue to stay stagnant in the beliefs of the past unless people speak out in opposition. And those who do speak out are censored and brought down by the Church and State. There are no real rights Chalaco, it's all just an illusion. The Insitution lets us believe we have rights and we stupidly go along with it all. But speak out once and learn the consequences of your actions. Ugh I should shut up... I'm sounding like I believe in conspiracy theories :eek:.


:eek:
 
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

I still say that between divorce and gay marriages, they've managed to turn marriage into an entity, as the swedishfish has pointed out. I'll think about that whole rights are "an illusion" belief and if it's good, let it percolate. Nice feedback, otherwise.
 
and what exactly did you mean by, "speak out once and learn the consequences of your actions"?
 
Marriage is an entity. The couple involved do not own their own marriage, it is owned by the State and the Church. No wonder so many people just prefer not to marry.

And as for the 'speak out once and learn the consequences of your actions'... well in today's climate, you speak out about anything and you are branded. Speak out about gay marriages in a church and you're likely to be thrown out, banned from the church, labelled an anti-christian and in today's climate, it wouldn't suprise me if the protestor gets labelled a terrorist :rolleyes:. A friend of mine protested once in a Catholic church to allow gay parishioners to be allowed to take communion. She was removed forcibly by two burly members and threatened. She didn't scream out or anything like that, she only wore a rainbow sash in support of gay rights. Next thing she knew, 2 big guys were on either side of her and had literally dragged her out. She along with several others (some very elderly) were thrown out by force (ie. picked up and carried out of the church while the priest made comments about the evil that permeated the church.. blah.. blah.. blah). My friend had never protested about anything before and she's an agnostic, but her brother is gay and she decided to stand up for his rights. She is no longer allowed to set foot in that church and she's yet to find out if the ban is for other churches as well. Hence why I said speak out once and learn the consequences of your actions.



:eek:
 
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anybody else notice this folgers shrink charlatan has yet to retort after being exposed for the hypocritical bigot that he is.
 
your friend has been given a blessing in disguise

churches are ridiculous, it's a wonder homosexual couples wish to be married in them in the first place, you'd think they'd have some sense with all the flak the church gives them. But, I still say, if it's a marriage they want, it's a marriage they'll get.
 
and you're right, marriages have always been enitities, but never have they been given the personification they've been given these days
 
And the crazies continue to come out of the woodwork, displaying their hate and shame and barely repressed homoerotic desire masking as religious righteousness.
By eliminating the possibility of a legislative alternative, the decision left opponents of same-sex marriage in Massachusetts with no option other than an amendment to the state constitution defining marriage as an opposite-sex institution only. (Full text here)
Translation:
<ul>We are so afraid that gay weddings will be so tasteful and/or fun that our Catholic stiff minds would be too envious to function, so we're gonna ban the act right now. Oh, and the ass sex makes us queasy.</ul>:m: Peace.
 
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