What in the world are you talking about?
Free Will
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What in the world are you talking about?
It may be a limitation, maybe not depends who you are and what you are trying to accomplish or fulfill.
I have just written a topic on free will and explained how it is a sentience thing.
It is an unavoidable conundrum for the unlucky people that believe in an all-knowing and all-powerful creator. They often try to avoid the mess by claiming that God simply "knows what actions we will choose of our own free will". But this only works if God created the universe with some chaos and chance involved, things that were out of his control. A roll of the dice. Otherwise, He made everything with perfect knowledge of how it would turn out, so in the act of creating all of THIS, he willed it into being, our illusion of Free Will being a subset of his much more powerful general will.
Free Will only exists as an illusion. One as pervasive and incorrect as the notion that we are an "individual" or that we have constancy of personality.
They don't.
Only sometimes.
its actually a circle
its cause , effect and affect
for instance
an earth quake is the cause of tidal wave , tidal wave is the effect from the earth quake , the affect is what happens as a consequence of effect of the tidal wave of the point of contact with land
Chimps have free will.
Programs are extentions of their programmers, who have free-will.
Free will is not about what a fantasy being hypothetically might know. Its about can you choose. To show free will doesn't exist, every action needs to be tracable back to an external cause. This is demonstrably not the case.
Even in controlled circumstances, people react differently to the same external inputs. Even the same person reacts differently to the same external inputs. This deterministically inexplicable fact is quite easily explained by the prerson having independent agency, aka free will.
Chimps have the same illusion we do, although probably don't even notice they have it, and certainly don't philosophise.swarm said:
And as for programs being extensions of their programmers...
... we are all merely extensions of the Universe... which seems to operate on cause 'n' effect... so I see no actual free-will there, only the pervasive illusion of such.
This is demonstrably the case... if you take identical starting conditions and identical subjects.
Flawed example. You are assuming that every person not only has the same programming but has the same brain.
If you run two different programmes (e.g. a spreadsheet on one, a game on another) on two identical computers and provide the same inputs, the outputs would be different. Wow... is this showing free-will?? Of course not. And not to mention the differing actual physicalities of our brain.
Each person IS different - through nature (genes) and nurture/experience (programming). The architecture of the brain might be identical but the actual workings differ enormously so as to make every person unique.
To thus assume that every person will act the same under the same inputs is ludicrous and in no way offers an example of an external independent agency.
But you seem to think that an external independent agency exists. So where does it come from? How does it arise? How does it interact with our brains?
So if I drop a rock on your foot its just an illusion that you hop around and get pissed?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
It can only be shown to be an illusion of cause and effect if you can also show that time doesn't exist.
Are you a chimp?
Non parallel analogy. The universe as a whole has no agency and doesn't program computers. In particular, we evolved and were not programmed.
Actually only macro events "in the act" seem to follow cause and effects. Quantum events and beings do not seem to follow cause and effect.
Who sees this?
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This is not the case. Identical starting conditions on identical subjects still don't always yield identical results.
nope. same person. same stimulous. different actions.
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