Free Will

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DiamondHearts said:
Yet the Athiestic idea of free will relies on the environment and biological evolution, therefore in reality, there is no free will. Free will is just an illusion, whether you believe in God as the Creator or simply environment as the creator. It's just sounds nice, it doesn't mean much though.
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So god is playing you like a puppet, making you say this?

Or is satan playing you like a puppet to entertain god?

Either way, free will still exists, its just pushed back a layer.

FYI, its obvious you are completely clueless about atheism. You should read up on it a bit first.
 
EndLightEnd said:
Observation crystallizes the wave function, ie produce matter. It was not matter before observation, it was potential.
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No.

More importantly it stresses that the whole human experience is subjective. Individuality is an illusion.
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Nope.

You are confusing spiritual insights and physical insights and you are attemping to apply spiritual insights via reason. These are called errors of kind.
 
tnerb said:
If they were not dumbasses, they would realize what I have said which translated is:
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Wow. Um...have you tried decaf to improve coherance?

While it has a nice street rant feel and I now want to give you a dollar, I'm not sure what you are getting on about.
 
tnerb said:
First of all, I know without doubt that user thinking is user quantum quack.
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I generally recommend against paranoid ideation.

Seriously that is a slippery slope which will ruin your enjoyment of discussion groups. QQ is not behind every rock and people can think you are nuts without having to be QQ.
 
thinking said:
perhaps in a way Free-Will for us all is a collective thing > an attitude , rather than just a personal thing

it just know occured to me this idea , about Free-Will
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Did that idea occur for no reason.???


swarm said:
You seem to be trying to equate reason and cause.
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I see no prollem wit that... but i will use the word "cause" ... did that idea occur wit-out cause.???
 
swarm said:
You are confusing spiritual insights and physical insights and you are attemping to apply spiritual insights via reason. These are called errors of kind.
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No, I have simply realized the connection between eastern philosophies and quantum mechanics. Eastern philosophies have told us for centuries that the reality we view is nothing more than an illusion of a grander scale, and individuality is an illusion as well.

You said yourself in an earlier post...
swarm said:
Cause/effect occurs at the micro-level as well.
The unpredictability you refer to is due to the probability function of the effects of each cause. E.g. a single cause might have 20% chance of 5 separate effects. But this does not negate cause/effect.
Which is why two identical set-ups might have multiple outcomes.
But this is still predictable.
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All I can say is I held this opinion to begin with but several physicists who understand quantum physics have explained to me that this just isn't how it works and the evidence that this is not how it works is very well established.
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Your right, quantum mechanics is well established. Quantum mechanics tells us at a fundamental level, NOTHING is separate. Quantum mechanics tells us observation plays a DIRECT ROLE in how reality is assimilated to the observer. But as Sarkus pointed out earlier, this is more about subjective vs. objective reality and is a bit off topic.
 
swarm said:
No. What is the difference between will and free will?
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Will is the act of using ones knowledge to make logical decisions on what to do and when to do it.

Free will is when one has virtually no foreknowledge about the consequences of ones decisions, but one has to act anyway. When one knows of even some of the possible outcomes of ones actions, then his act is NOT free ...it's been influenced by outside forces - knowledge is just one of those.

Even using ones own logic to make decisions is fraught with outside influences else there'd be no way for the logic to work.

Thus, ....everyone has will and some freedom to act. No one, except perhaps a new born baby, has "free" will.

Baron Max
 
tnerb said:
I hope that means something positive.
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It can be very positive, and yet it can be just the opposite. It is good to have optimism across the board, but we also have to accept the possibility that free will can create terrible situations. It happens all the time. I have seen some of the worse scenarios. I have seen some of the best also.
 
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swarm said:
So god is playing you like a puppet, making you say this?

Or is satan playing you like a puppet to entertain god?

Either way, free will still exists, its just pushed back a layer.

FYI, its obvious you are completely clueless about atheism. You should read up on it a bit first.
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From your post, its obvious you didn't understand what I wrote. Free will exists, in as far as how we perceive it. In reality though, it doesn't exist, because no one is technically free from the laws of nature to think how they please (in the Muslim case, the laws of God). Free will is just a nice thing, it doesn't really exist. We just like to think it does.

As far as my definition of the lack of free will in atheism, several people have no problem with my post.

By the way, if you haven't realized by now, I don't really care what you think. You are just an anti-Muslim bigot. If you don't have anything to bring to the discussion other than criticize others, go do some research and come back.
 
DiamondHearts said:
From your post, its obvious you didn't understand what I wrote. Free will exists, in as far as how we perceive it. In reality though, it doesn't exist, because no one is technically free from the laws of nature to think how they please (in the Muslim case, the laws of God). Free will is just a nice thing, it doesn't really exist. We just like to think it does.

As far as my definition of the lack of free will in atheism, several people have no problem with my post.

By the way, if you haven't realized by now, I don't really care what you think. You are just an anti-Muslim bigot. If you don't have anything to bring to the discussion other than criticize others, go do some research and come back.
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I think everyone in the universe disagrees with you. What are you trying to do here?
 
tnerb said:
I think everyone in the universe disagrees with you. What are you trying to do here?
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If you don't know about swarm, I suggest you take a look at his previous posts.

I wanted to share my view with those who were interested, if you aren't then just don't respond. What are you, some moderator or something?
 
Exeter said:
It can be very positive, and yet it can be just the opposite. It is good to have optimism across the board, but we also have to accept the possibility that free will can create terrible situations. It happens all the time. I have seen some of the worse scenarios. I have seen some of the best also.
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Show me one "best senario" that you've seen.

Don't go on about your past. Also, what do you mean it can be the opposite?
 
DiamondHearts said:
If you don't know about swarm, I suggest you take a look at his previous posts.

I wanted to share my view with those who were interested, if you aren't then just don't respond. What are you, some moderator or something?
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We're not necessarially interested in something if everyone isn't interested... This is my thread. And, you are wrong!

Also, as cool as you are and as much as I would like to agree, sometimes I have issues you have to forgive me.....
 
Why I feel the choice of unconsciousness or by extention death [ suicide ] leads to the confirmation of free will as a reality:

when dealing with a system that comprises only of substance [ universe - reality - time etc ] there is absoolutely nothing else beyond that whole system.
By being able to seek oblivion and as far as we know acheive it, allows us to escape the system.

So in a system thast only substance we have the ultimate freedom to choose to leave it or stay.

It is up to us individually to determine what and how pervasive our conditioning is and whether to accept natures dominance and influence or not, thus we have free will to throw it all away.

Consider that having only the choice between "something"and "nothing" indicates free will.

As we are dealing with a complete system and not just a part of it.

In pseudo religious terms [Eastern ] this is why reincarnation carries no recollecttion of past lives except by some intuitive insights [ irregular and unconfirmable]
And why once death has occurred no continuity of expereince is assumed to be maintained.

Thus we have the freedom to chuck it inn or live until nature chuck it in for us.
 
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