True, but would you want to?
Fraud... what to do?
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True, but would you want to?
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Peer review is the key step in the scientific method that identifies fraud, incompetence and politics. What everyone is saying is that, in universities, the peer review process has broken down and is no longer dependable. We already know that has happened in corporate science: They keep replacing their scientists until they get a bunch who give them the results they want. What's left, government science??? It's hard to believe that fraud, incompetence and politics are less prevalent in, for example, NIH, than in the academic and corporate sectors.
So where are we to find proper science any more? Is science one more "industry" that has to migrate offshore? And are things any better over there???
So where are we to find proper science any more? Is science one more "industry" that has to migrate offshore? And are things any better over there???
In the published paper, can the western blot (the one that is published (electronically)) be contrasted to show that the blot was fabricated? Can you see a line or a missing section?
Also, photoshop supposedly has a program that can detect which angle light has hit an object and determine if two different pictures where photographed and assembled simply by the way the light his the object. They made this program specifically to help journal editors detect this kind of fraud - which absolutely pisses me right the f*ck off because I have to work my arse off and this slob just makes it up which then makes my job even more difficult because I read this slobs paper and try to figure out why I can not do the same experiment. In a review I read it something like 10-15% of all papers and so it wouldn't "shock" the journal editors.
The rule is the entire image can be lightened or contrasted to make it look "pretty" so long as its everything and no data is lost.
Anyway, you should do something and the PI should be fired because this means they probably do it all of the time.
Also, photoshop supposedly has a program that can detect which angle light has hit an object and determine if two different pictures where photographed and assembled simply by the way the light his the object. They made this program specifically to help journal editors detect this kind of fraud - which absolutely pisses me right the f*ck off because I have to work my arse off and this slob just makes it up which then makes my job even more difficult because I read this slobs paper and try to figure out why I can not do the same experiment. In a review I read it something like 10-15% of all papers and so it wouldn't "shock" the journal editors.
The rule is the entire image can be lightened or contrasted to make it look "pretty" so long as its everything and no data is lost.
Anyway, you should do something and the PI should be fired because this means they probably do it all of the time.
Yep, for one of the figures you can see a line between the control and the samples, also you can see that the middle part of the blot has been smuggled, and there is an artifact that repeats along the bottom part of the gel, like dots (seems like it was cut from some gel and pasted several times to get a perfect background).
Other 2 figures you can see a precise delimitation (a square) around the bands. I am not sure if this is something that could happen by chance (did this to my blots and didn't find any evidence...).
I just wonder how people accepts "PERFECT" western blots like that... I have never seem something like that.
Regarding the PI, I think she is (sort of) honest, but she is still in the "I don't believe" phase. She agreed some of the thesis figures were fab, but she does think all the paper figures are ok, and that the result does exists... I am still having hope on the system and really hope she will take action (although in a slower way I wished). Maybe the PI is giving rope to the student hang his/herself????
Let's hope, cause it kills me to see all the grad students working late nights, walking home cause they don't have car and this freak place doesn't have buses after 6PM... Including you working your a** and I working mine to get publishable figures...
In my experience, PIs don't want to know and prefer to be kept in the dark about stuff like that; that way, what they do not know, they cannot be held responsible for.
Michael:
do you have a link to that Photoshop way of checking for fraud? I'd like to see it.
I forgot it, I would like to see it too.
Because you get grants with good papers! Nobody checks if they are retracted or not.
Disgusting.
Maybe you could even publish a little paper showing how the Photoshop program works to detect fraud
It's a great idea!! lol Actually this made me much more skeptical, and every time I read a paper that I will use in my research, I will check on photoshop.
Maybe this student could write a book:
How to get a perfect thesis and play SUDOKU in the lab at the same time.
The perfect blot, it does exist - it's only one click away.
(Oh, isn't this one the best??) If I did it...
Hmm, sounds to me like you're advising people how to commit fraud???
Do you hold the same standards for everyone? Like politicians and cops and Blackwater employees and such people? Or do you have double or triple or.... standards?
Baron Max
I read about that when the Korean got caught out cheating. Interesting story, they guy was a National Hero. Then it was found he made some results up and he became a National Disgrace. AND THEN, recently it was found that his experiment he ran to make up his results was actually better and MORE INTERESTING than his published results - he was just to blind to see it!!!
And that's the point - the results are the results. Most of the time they will not fit with the hypothesis you envisioned. So what. Just publish what you found and don't worry if you can figure it all out. NO ONE CAN.
If that Korean had just simply published his REAL results he'd still be a national hero and he'd be even more famous and an even better scientist. But he was sooooo worried about some bull shit story he was trying to spin that he lied his way out of make a great contribution to science.
Although I can't find the original article here's something: Adobe Fraud busting tool
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Me too, I don't believe hardly anything I read anymore.
There is a website somewhere for publishing the dirt on people AND its anonymous. I think it more for government employees and corporate accountants and such? That's all I remember.
And when did this happen??? I'd dearly love to see where you found that, because just recently I read another story about it/him in the newspaper! ...they never mentioned anything about his vindication.
Baron Max
The article says:
Recently, researchers from Harvard Stem Cell Institute, led by Dr George Daley, examined his research again and determined that the cells came from a another type of embryo. The scientists say it is well possible that Hwang and team had managed to pull off the world's first human case of parthenogenesis, or 'virgin birth'.
Take note of my bolded notation in the original article. ....it is well possible....??? Meaning that they haven't thoroughly checked it out yet, and they're not sure?
What's interesting, though, is that he didn't fight the fraud accusations at all ........why? Because he knew he'd fucked up? ...and got caught at it?
Baron Max
Well, will have new facts soon... things are getting "interesting"!
The PI is asking for the originals (more in a sense of showing up to the other poor student how wrong she was!!!). And... the cheater is trying to forge the autorads!!
The post doc found a thick envelope cut and printed out with the "probably fake" image on it, and the bands CUT out... and the cheater did several trips to the dark room... it seems he is really trying hard to get the "real" autorad... no originals so far baby!
How far can a person go?? I just think that a lie is like a rolling snow ball (like in cartoons), once it starts, it just keep growing!
Besides that, I didn't really do anything yet. I am waiting for the PI and hoping for a miracle. If nothing happens by the end of October, I will rethink my role on all this.
The PI is asking for the originals (more in a sense of showing up to the other poor student how wrong she was!!!). And... the cheater is trying to forge the autorads!!
The post doc found a thick envelope cut and printed out with the "probably fake" image on it, and the bands CUT out... and the cheater did several trips to the dark room... it seems he is really trying hard to get the "real" autorad... no originals so far baby!
How far can a person go?? I just think that a lie is like a rolling snow ball (like in cartoons), once it starts, it just keep growing!
Besides that, I didn't really do anything yet. I am waiting for the PI and hoping for a miracle. If nothing happens by the end of October, I will rethink my role on all this.